[ziggy]

If I could write a letter to God this would be it.

Lyrics from "Dear God" by XTC

Dear God,
Hope you got the letter,
And I pray you can make it better down here.
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer,
But all the people that you made in your image,
See them starving on their feet,
'Cause they don't get enough to eat

From God,
I can't believe in you.

Dear God,
sorry to disturb you,
but I feel that I should be heard loud and clear.
We all need a big reduction in amount of tears,
And all the people that you made in your image,
See them fighting in the street,
'Cause they can't make opinions meet,
About God,
I can't believe in you.

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue?
Did you make mankind after we made you?
And the devil too!

Dear God,
Don't know if you noticed,
But your name is on a lot of quotes in this book.
Us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look,
And all the people that you made in your image,
Still believing that junk is true.
Well I know it ain't and so do you,
Dear God,
I can't believe in,
I don't believe in,

I won't believe in heaven and hell.
No saints, no sinners,
No Devil as well.
No pearly gates, no thorny crown.
You're always letting us humans down.
The wars you bring, the babes you drown.
Those lost at sea and never found,
And it's the same the whole world 'round.
The hurt I see helps to compound,
that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost,
Is just somebody's unholy hoax,
And if you're up there you'll perceive,
That my heart's here upon my sleeve.
If there's one thing I don't believe in...

It's you,
Dear God.

[Banff]

I probably shouldn't speak for others but I think it would be safe to say that about says it for most people s disappointments . I'd be willing to bet that the most God loving and religious people fight there own beliefs with the same sentiments .

[Banff]

lily wrote:

Do you say grace before every meal, thanking Him for the food He's given you to eat? Do you say your prayers at bedtime thanking Him for a loving family, a job you enjoy, your health? Do you start each day with a prayer of praise for the beauty around you... the glorious sunrises, the snow-capped mountains, the deer in your yard? Do you thank Him for friends who care about you, who are there for you when you need someone? Do you thank Him every time you hear laughter, see smiles? Do you give him credit when strangers stop on the road to help in a car accident or when someone collapses on the sidewalk? Do you praise Him when people save a baby they found abandoned?

Why doesn't God get credit for all the good in the world from the people who blame Him, for all the bad?

<<<<<<<<<< " IN HIS IMAGE ? "

sure I do, but why would God test people for testing him and then spread his wrath using fear as a guidline for peace and harmony .

[Tricks]

lily wrote:

Do you say grace before every meal, thanking Him for the food He's given you to eat?

Nope I thank my mom for getting and preparing it

Quote:

Do you say your prayers at bedtime thanking Him for a loving family, a job you enjoy, your health?

Nope. I don't enjoy my job

Quote:

Do you start each day with a prayer of praise for the beauty around you... the glorious sunrises, the snow-capped mountains, the deer in your yard?

I wake up well after the sun rises, no snow-capped mountains, and no deer. So nope.

Quote:

Do you thank Him for friends who care about you, who are there for you when you need someone?

Nope, I made my own friends.

Quote:

Do you thank Him every time you hear laughter, see smiles?

Nope.

Quote:

Do you give him credit when strangers stop on the road to help in a car accident or when someone collapses on the sidewalk?

Nope.

Quote:

Do you praise Him when people save a baby they found abandoned?

Nope

Quote:

Why doesn't God get credit for all the good in the world from the people who blame Him, for all the bad?

Because if he does exist, God is expect to do good things. A goalie is expected to save a breakaway shot, do you thank him for it? No. But you get pissed if he doesn't.

[Blue_Nose]

Quote:

Do you think writing an individual response to every single sentence of a post is a little redundant?

Yep.

I don't understand why God would need to be thanked for anything - if He exists, He's not going to expect thanks from his creations any more than an artist would expect thanks from their painting.

[Blue_Nose]

lily wrote:

No, but fair's fair. If He's to accept responsibility for the bad in the world, He should expect to reap the praises for the good.

Christian God isn't that 'fair' to us, though - my good deeds don't have any impact when it comes down to it - it's all about the bad things I've done in my life.

To any Christian I know, it doesn't matter how good a person is - if they don't admit that they've sinned and ask Christ to forgive them, they're not going to heaven.

[Blue_Nose]

lily wrote:

Your good deeds don't matter to whom?

God - I'm talking about the Christian belief in salvation through atonement. It doesn't matter that you've sinned as long as you accept that Jesus died for your sins and ask for forgiveness. A rapist can get into heaven if he accepts Jesus as his saviour, as there's only one (stupid) unforgivable sin - denying the Holy Spirit.

[ziggy]

It's a beautifull song and because of Ipod problems it was listened to many times by me and allmost brings a tear to my eye now when I listen to it.

Maybe its the way the lyrics are sang or something,I never even heard of the band XTC before but the gal singing it sounds awesome.
Comparable to Jewel.

[GafferGal]

Blue_Nose wrote:

lily wrote:

Your good deeds don't matter to whom?

God - I'm talking about the Christian belief in salvation through atonement. It doesn't matter that you've sinned as long as you accept that Jesus died for your sins and ask for forgiveness. A rapist can get into heaven if he accepts Jesus as his saviour, as there's only one (stupid) unforgivable sin - denying the Holy Spirit.

Which is exactly why I personally can't believe in such a god...
If I've worked my entire life to be a decent human being - I have to share my eternal afterlife space with people like Charlie Manson & Hitler...simply because they claim to have atoned for their sins???
Thankyou, but no Thankyou...

Jj
"He's your God, It's your hell..YOU GO THERE!"

[Blue_Nose]

GafferGal wrote:

Which is exactly why I personally can't believe in such a god...
If I've worked my entire life to be a decent human being - I have to share my eternal afterlife space with people like Charlie Manson & Hitler...simply because they claim to have atoned for their sins???
Thankyou, but no Thankyou...

Jj
"He's your God, It's your hell..YOU GO THERE!"

I must say, I've never been Christian, but nothing has thrown me farther from becoming one than the time that I learned this atonement crap - a belief system that promotes submission to God as being more important than the quality of life you live is absolutely appalling to me.

On a sidenote - you're a glass blower? Too cool...

[icekarma2752]

GafferGal wrote:

Blue_Nose wrote:

lily wrote:

Your good deeds don't matter to whom?

God - I'm talking about the Christian belief in salvation through atonement. It doesn't matter that you've sinned as long as you accept that Jesus died for your sins and ask for forgiveness. A rapist can get into heaven if he accepts Jesus as his saviour, as there's only one (stupid) unforgivable sin - denying the Holy Spirit.

Which is exactly why I personally can't believe in such a god...
If I've worked my entire life to be a decent human being - I have to share my eternal afterlife space with people like Charlie Manson & Hitler...simply because they claim to have atoned for their sins???
Thankyou, but no Thankyou...

Jj
"He's your God, It's your hell..YOU GO THERE!"

i know exactly what youre saying and the born-again christian movement is very big on that...if hitler or stalin say this dinky little prayer right before they die about how you acknowledge youre a sinner,you believe christ died on the cross for our sins and that you welcome jesus into your heart then bang!! done deal you are in heaven...us catholics are far more strict...but even then as much as i believe in an afterlife i do have problems with the concept of heaven and hell

[icekarma2752]

lily wrote:

Quote:

if hitler or stalin say this dinky little prayer right before they die about how you acknowledge youre a sinner,you believe christ died on the cross for our sins and that you welcome jesus into your heart then bang!! done deal you are in heaven...

The kicker is they have to truly believe it.

so you honestly believe that they would??at best it would be desperation and the fear of death.. there's a lot of merit in that old adage "there are no atheists in foxholes"

[icekarma2752]

lily wrote:

No, I don't believe they would, so I believe it's unlikely they're in Heaven right now, even had they said the "dinky little prayer".

well you know even those who've lived a sinful life arent exempt from heaven...my favorite example is when christ was dying on the cross in the middle of 2 criminals...even they acknowledged that they deserve to be up there but christ didnt..and when they asked if they could come to heaven with him...with no hesitation whatsoever christ replied "by the end of this day you'll be at my side in paradise"...so i guess where i'm going with this is stalin or hitler have no such defense...they were very well aware of the concept of christ and chose to reject him...the 2 criminals who were crucified with christ had no such awareness so there are times where youre saved on faith alone

[ShepherdsDog]

I've run into a few 'christians' in my time who think that they can get away with any behaviour, go to confession, slate's wiped clean and they can start behaving immorally immediately. A Jewish friend put it in a good perspective though. He was taught by his rabbi that God can only forgive sins that you've commited against Him. Sins commited against your fellow man, you have to ask them for their forgiveness.