[Dayseed]

Gunnair Gunnair:

You are argue points from what is clearly a very limited understanding of what religion and faith is. If you want to try and score points from your very limited macro approach, good luck. Faith is not a simple as you make it out to be, though I suspect you do so to help you make a case that against a more nuanced set of beliefs, would fall utterly flat.

Faith is usually the default answer for why somebody continues to believe in an irrational position.

If faith is something more than that, feel free to enlighten. I suspect, although I may be wrong, that you will claim faith in unsupported propositions you learned as a child. And it will consist of a giant word salad.

[Gunnair]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Gunnair Gunnair:

You are argue points from what is clearly a very limited understanding of what religion and faith is. If you want to try and score points from your very limited macro approach, good luck. Faith is not a simple as you make it out to be, though I suspect you do so to help you make a case that against a more nuanced set of beliefs, would fall utterly flat.

Faith is usually the default answer for why somebody continues to believe in an irrational position.

If faith is something more than that, feel free to enlighten. I suspect, although I may be wrong, that you will claim faith in unsupported propositions you learned as a child. And it will consist of a giant word salad.

Well you correct in one thing. You are wrong.

[Dayseed]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Gunnair Gunnair:

You are argue points from what is clearly a very limited understanding of what religion and faith is. If you want to try and score points from your very limited macro approach, good luck. Faith is not a simple as you make it out to be, though I suspect you do so to help you make a case that against a more nuanced set of beliefs, would fall utterly flat.

Faith is usually the default answer for why somebody continues to believe in an irrational position.

If faith is something more than that, feel free to enlighten. I suspect, although I may be wrong, that you will claim faith in unsupported propositions you learned as a child. And it will consist of a giant word salad.

Well you correct in one thing. You are wrong.

And your assertion is unsupported by reason; shall I assume its meant to be taken on faith?

[Gunnair]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Faith is usually the default answer for why somebody continues to believe in an irrational position.

If faith is something more than that, feel free to enlighten. I suspect, although I may be wrong, that you will claim faith in unsupported propositions you learned as a child. And it will consist of a giant word salad.

Well you correct in one thing. You are wrong.

And your assertion is unsupported by reason; shall I assume its meant to be taken on faith?

You may continue in all of your assumptions of course.

[CanadianJeff]

I'm afraid I'm in agreement with Dayseed here. Faith is the belief in something without consideration of evidence or context.

It's actually rather astounding how quickly people become defensive about faith issues. I've found that those who are most defensive are more often then not the very people who should know better.

Often they actually do but have pushed the confrontations of their arguments to a part of their mind which networks the support systems of their faith. Even if one node of that system is directly challenged the other nodes still support the network.

The slow destruction of this network of beliefs supporting a concept is refereed to as graceful degradation. Even if faith itself it shown to be wrong there are other beliefs supporting the concept of god that a person can use within their own mind to continue justification of the concept.

At least that's my theory on why it's always more then just an attack on the ideas of faith that will ever be effective in getting a person to honestly question a concept they take on faith.

[Dayseed]

Gunnair Gunnair:

You may continue in all of your assumptions of course.

So what do you believe, and why?

[Gunnair]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Gunnair Gunnair:

You may continue in all of your assumptions of course.

So what do you believe, and why?

Sorry, I don't lay my faith and beliefs out for the locals whose only purpose is to try and run them down.

I'm sure there are those open to conversion for your beliefs, but I'm not really none of them, thanks.

[Dayseed]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

I'm afraid I'm in agreement with Dayseed here. Faith is the belief in something without consideration of evidence or context.

It's actually rather astounding how quickly people become defensive about faith issues. I've found that those who are most defensive are more often then not the very people who should know better.

Often they actually do but have pushed the confrontations of their arguments to a part of their mind which networks the support systems of their faith. Even if one node of that system is directly challenged the other nodes still support the network.

The slow destruction of this network of beliefs supporting a concept is refereed to as graceful degradation. Even if faith itself it shown to be wrong there are other beliefs supporting the concept of god that a person can use within their own mind to continue justification of the concept.

At least that's my theory on why it's always more then just an attack on the ideas of faith that will ever be effective in getting a person to honestly question a concept they take on faith.

We're slightly different in our approach I think. I question other people's "faith" not because there's really any chance of converting them, but rather as a demonstration to a third-party reading it who's on the fence. If the "believer" crashes and burns on rationally supporting their beliefs, they'll retreat to "faith". However, that third-party may be reachable; they may see the crash and burn and find the courage to throw out "faith".

[Dayseed]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Gunnair Gunnair:

You may continue in all of your assumptions of course.

So what do you believe, and why?

Sorry, I don't lay my faith and beliefs out for the locals whose only purpose is to try and run them down.

I'm sure there are those open to conversion for your beliefs, but I'm not really none of them, thanks.

I'm sure you don't lay them out to locals. I'm also sure you haven't laid them out before yourself either. I doubt, very strongly, you've ever bothered to ask yourself what you believe and why.

If you're interested in truth, try it out tonight, the results may shock you.

[Gunnair]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

I'm afraid I'm in agreement with Dayseed here. Faith is the belief in something without consideration of evidence or context.

It's actually rather astounding how quickly people become defensive about faith issues. I've found that those who are most defensive are more often then not the very people who should know better.

I'm not quite sure why you should find it so astounding. Speaking of the forum experience, the local atheists here are very vocal and very aggressive in their attack of the locals for their faith. I emphasize that word attack because most posts are dripping with judgement, mocking, aggression, and insult. It is a rare day that there is any concept of live and let live it is simply combat and an evangelical desire to convert those who not agree with them to their own set of values and beliefs.

How many of those on the opposite fence, Jeff, preach to the level of arrogance and aggression, their set of beliefs.

That you find their reactions astounding may suggest a deplorable level of empathy for anyone without your values and beliefs.

[Gunnair]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Dayseed Dayseed:

So what do you believe, and why?

Sorry, I don't lay my faith and beliefs out for the locals whose only purpose is to try and run them down.

I'm sure there are those open to conversion for your beliefs, but I'm not really none of them, thanks.

I'm sure you don't lay them out to locals. I'm also sure you haven't laid them out before yourself either. I doubt, very strongly, you've ever bothered to ask yourself what you believe and why.

If you're interested in truth, try it out tonight, the results may shock you.

Interesting levels of arrogance here, and telling. Yet another Eureka moment for the forums.

[Dayseed]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Interesting levels of arrogance here, and telling. Yet another Eureka moment for the forums.

You could prove them wrong if you wanted. I notice that you continue not to. It's also "telling" that you'd like me to believe I'm wrong, yet won't provide reasons why.

[Gunnair]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Interesting levels of arrogance here, and telling. Yet another Eureka moment for the forums.

You could prove them wrong if you wanted. I notice that you continue not to. It's also "telling" that you'd like me to believe I'm wrong, yet won't provide reasons why.

Ahh, I see the mistake. You've assumed I care what you believe.

I assure you I don't. I'm no more interested in changing your beliefs as I am interested in having mine changed.

I may provide a bit of defence, or take a swipe or two at the usual arrogant presumptions, but conversion?

Nope.

[Lemmy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

but conversion? Nope.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

but conversion? Nope.

Yeah, Lemmy, it's conversion.