[BartSimpson]

This just in from Reuters and the AGW Cover All Bases crowd:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6AF1I1.htm

Quote:

Colder winters possible due to climate change-study

16 Nov 2010 14:52:16 GMT
Source: Reuters
* Colder winters possible in northern regions

* Shrinking sea ice causes airstream anomalies

* Finding does not conflict with global warming

BERLIN, Nov 16 (Reuters) - Climate change could lead to colder winters in northern regions, according to a study by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research on Tuesday.

Vladimir Petoukhov, lead author of the study, said a shrinking of sea ice in the eastern Arctic causes some regional warming of lower air levels and may lead to anomalies in atmospheric airstreams, triggering an overall cooling of the northern continents.

"These anomalies could triple the probability of cold winter extremes in Europe and northern Asia," he said. "Recent severe winters like last year's or the one of 2005/06 do not conflict with the global warming picture but rather supplement it."

Petoukhov, whose study is entitled "A link between reduced Barents-Kara sea ice and cold winter extremes over northern continents", said in a statement a warming of the air over the Barents-Kara Sea appeared to bring cold winter winds to Europe.

"This is not what one would expect," Petoukhov said. "Whoever thinks that the shrinking of some far away sea ice won't bother him could be wrong."

The U.N. panel of climate scientists say a creeping rise in global temperatures will bring ever more floods, droughts, heat waves and rising sea levels.

Almost 200 nations meet in Mexico from Nov. 29 to Dec. 10 to try to agree a "green fund" to help poor countries deal with climate change and other steps towards an elusive treaty to tackle global warming. [ID:nLDE6AF0FB] (Reporting by Erik Kirschbaum; editing by Janet Lawrence)

So this winter if we experience record cold it'll be because it's so warm.

Remember, all fluctuations in weather and climate are caused by man-made global warming!

If it gets warm it's caused by AGW.

If it gets cold it's caused by AGW.

If nothing happens then it'll be a crisis that nothing has happened and it'll be caused by AGW.

[Mr_Canada]

It makes sense.

Well, more sense then winters getting hotter.

Who says all natural fluctuations are man-made? Why shouldn't these
problems be addressed regardless of whether or not it's man-made?

Do you really just want to keep your old aerosol cans or something?

[Zipperfish]

That's from Reuters? As in news? I learned that in 1999. I imagine the first papers on the issue came out well before that. It's the primary reason they went from "global warming" to "climate change" as I recall. Slow down of the Ocean Conveyor or something.

[BartSimpson]

Mr_Canada wrote:

Who says all natural fluctuations are man-made? Why shouldn't these
problems be addressed regardless of whether or not it's man-made?

Why assume that a climate fluctuation is man made when there's overwhelming evidence that the climate fluctuated all the time long before we came along?

To me it's akin to claiming there's Anthropogenic Tidal Change (ATC)....

See, hockey games cause the tides to change and the proof of that is the tides are changing, don't you see? We should do something about it! Like, what's wrong with mandating tidal safe hockey games to reduce the impacts on critical wildlife habitats from the crisis of daily tidal change? If only man were not causing tidal change there'd be no daily inundation of millions of square hectares of land!

I probably shouldn't bring this up because, no doubt, some moron will claim that man really is causing tidal change and that the moon has *nothing* to do with the tides.

[Gunnair]

BartSimpson wrote:

Mr_Canada wrote:

Who says all natural fluctuations are man-made? Why shouldn't these
problems be addressed regardless of whether or not it's man-made?

Why assume that a climate fluctuation is man made when there's overwhelming evidence that the climate fluctuated all the time long before we came along?

Cancer existed for a long time before industrialization so that must mean we have no effect on it.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson wrote:

Mr_Canada wrote:

Who says all natural fluctuations are man-made? Why shouldn't these
problems be addressed regardless of whether or not it's man-made?

Why assume that a climate fluctuation is man made when there's overwhelming evidence that the climate fluctuated all the time long before we came along?

To me it's akin to claiming there's Anthropogenic Tidal Change (ATC)....

See, hockey games cause the tides to change and the proof of that is the tides are changing, don't you see? We should do something about it! Like, what's wrong with mandating tidal safe hockey games to reduce the impacts on critical wildlife habitats from the crisis of daily tidal change? If only man were not causing tidal change there'd be no daily inundation of millions of square hectares of land!

I probably shouldn't bring this up because, no doubt, some moron will claim that man really is causing tidal change and that the moon has *nothing* to do with the tides.

Can we ban hockey now?

[Mr_Canada]

BartSimpson wrote:

Mr_Canada wrote:

Who says all natural fluctuations are man-made? Why shouldn't these
problems be addressed regardless of whether or not it's man-made?

Why assume that a climate fluctuation is man made when there's overwhelming evidence that the climate fluctuated all the time long before we came along?

To me it's akin to claiming there's Anthropogenic Tidal Change (ATC)....

See, hockey games cause the tides to change and the proof of that is the tides are changing, don't you see? We should do something about it! Like, what's wrong with mandating tidal safe hockey games to reduce the impacts on critical wildlife habitats from the crisis of daily tidal change? If only man were not causing tidal change there'd be no daily inundation of millions of square hectares of land!

I probably shouldn't bring this up because, no doubt, some moron will claim that man really is causing tidal change and that the moon has *nothing* to do with the tides.

This is pretty dumb Bart...

Fine. Ultimately you don't believe in 'Climate Change' and insist it's some Scientist Conspiracy to force us to drive hybrids.

What do you believe should be done about pollution, since it's doing nothing to our air, water supply, and way of life...?

[BartSimpson]

Mr_Canada wrote:

This is pretty dumb Bart...

Fine. Ultimately you don't believe in 'Climate Change' and insist it's some Scientist Conspiracy to force us to drive hybrids.

What do you believe should be done about pollution, since it's doing nothing to our air, water supply, and way of life...?

Tell you what, if you can answer one simple question for me and cite one climatologist on the point I'll turn in my Volvo for a hybrid with a considerably higher carbon footprint.

Here it is:

What would disprove the notion that man is causing climate change?

[BartSimpson]

Gunnair wrote:

Cancer existed for a long time before industrialization so that must mean we have no effect on it.

To the contrary, I recently read/saw something that said a survey of the mummies from Egypt has shown a 100% absence of cancers. That finding is leading some researchers to consider that cancer may be a recent development potentially caused by a virus.

Wish I had more on that but it's all I recall right off. It was rather recent, though.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson wrote:

Gunnair wrote:

Cancer existed for a long time before industrialization so that must mean we have no effect on it.

To the contrary, I recently read/saw something that said a survey of the mummies from Egypt has shown a 100% absence of cancers. That finding is leading some researchers to consider that cancer may be a recent development potentially caused by a virus.

Wish I had more on that but it's all I recall right off. It was rather recent, though.

Euhmmm...
http://cancer.about.com/od/historyofcan ... istory.htm

[Gunnair]

BartSimpson wrote:

Gunnair wrote:

Cancer existed for a long time before industrialization so that must mean we have no effect on it.

To the contrary, I recently read/saw something that said a survey of the mummies from Egypt has shown a 100% absence of cancers. That finding is leading some researchers to consider that cancer may be a recent development potentially caused by a virus.

Wish I had more on that but it's all I recall right off. It was rather recent, though.

Sampling a handfull of mummies and finding no cancer doesn't suggest the absence of cancer - just the absense of cancer in them.

[fifeboy]

BartSimpson wrote:

Gunnair wrote:

Cancer existed for a long time before industrialization so that must mean we have no effect on it.

To the contrary, I recently read/saw something that said a survey of the mummies from Egypt has shown a 100% absence of cancers. That finding is leading some researchers to consider that cancer may be a recent development potentially caused by a virus.

Wish I had more on that but it's all I recall right off. It was rather recent, though.

http://www.ourheritage.net/Great_Adventures/Marine_Expedtions/Northwest_Passage/Uummannaq/Mummies.html

Quote:

the researchers were able to identify with some certainty the cause of death of only three people. One woman had a malignant tumor near the base of her skull which most likely caused her death.

Not Egyptian royals, but pre-industrial.

[Nuggets]

BartSimpson wrote:

So this winter if we experience record cold it'll be because it's so warm.

Remember, all fluctuations in weather and climate are caused by man-made global warming!

If it gets warm it's caused by AGW.

If it gets cold it's caused by AGW.

If nothing happens then it'll be a crisis that nothing has happened and it'll be caused by AGW.

Where does it say that? I didn't read anywhere in there in that report where it says it's man made. It's a practical report about global warming effects that are being observed. Period.

Why are you using the term AGW? AGW means Anti Global Warming. What does Anti Global Warming have to do with the report?

BartSimpson wrote:

Tell you what, if you can answer one simple question for me .... Here it is:

What would disprove the notion that man is causing climate change?

WHY?

Why do you have such a bug in your butt about whether climate change is man made or not? Who cares? It doesn't matter anymore. It's happening. It's right in everybody's faces up close and personal now. Debating about what or who caused it is irrelevant now. Deal with it.



.

[stratos]

Well considering there was a mini ice age period that ended around the French Revolution and sense then the Earth has been on a warming trend. I say we blame the French.

[PostFactum]

Well, here this summer was the hottest in my life, still warm but everyone is saying that winter is going to be nuclear. The time will show)