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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:45 am
 


https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshe ... 8bc28121cc


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:50 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23/if-solar-panels-are-so-clean-why-do-they-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/#2e8bc28121cc


As my link indicated, semiconductors, glass, and plastic can all be recycled into more solar panels.

And everything electronic has lead in it. That's just the way they have to be made.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:54 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23/if-solar-panels-are-so-clean-why-do-they-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/#2e8bc28121cc


As my link indicated, semiconductors, glass, and plastic can all be recycled into more solar panels.

And everything electronic has lead in it. That's just the way they have to be made.



[popcorn]

Quote:
Solar panels often contain lead, cadmium, and other toxic chemicals that cannot be removed without breaking apart the entire panel. “Approximately 90% of most PV modules are made up of glass,” notes San Jose State environmental studies professor Dustin Mulvaney. “However, this glass often cannot be recycled as float glass due to impurities. Common problematic impurities in glass include plastics, lead, cadmium and antimony.”


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:58 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23/if-solar-panels-are-so-clean-why-do-they-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/#2e8bc28121cc


As my link indicated, semiconductors, glass, and plastic can all be recycled into more solar panels.

And everything electronic has lead in it. That's just the way they have to be made.



[popcorn]

Quote:
Solar panels often contain lead, cadmium, and other toxic chemicals that cannot be removed without breaking apart the entire panel. “Approximately 90% of most PV modules are made up of glass,” notes San Jose State environmental studies professor Dustin Mulvaney. “However, this glass often cannot be recycled as float glass due to impurities. Common problematic impurities in glass include plastics, lead, cadmium and antimony.”


So, what's your point? Nothing there is different than what I wrote. Nor is it any different than the link I gave.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:09 am
 


FYI:

Float glass describes a manufacturing process, not a specific type of glazing.

Any glass can be 'floated', there is just not a huge market for poor quality in clarity, and high quality in thickness.

I think Mulvaney meant that it cannot be be recycled into window grade, annealed sheets. Which is rather meaningless.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:21 am
 


peck420 wrote:
FYI:

Float glass describes a manufacturing process, not a specific type of glazing.

Any glass can be 'floated', there is just not a huge market for poor quality in clarity, and high quality in thickness.

I think Mulvaney meant that it cannot be be recycled into window grade, annealed sheets. Which is rather meaningless.


I actually knew that. (thank you decades of watching "How It's Made") ;) Molten glass is 'floated' on molten tin to produce flat sheets. I also know that tin + antimony is a RHoS substitute for the lead used in solder to make electronics, so I knew that 'float' glass containing antimony would cause problems in the glass manufacturing process.

And yes, it's meaningless. PV glass can be recycled into more PV glass, to keep it out of the plate glass recycle loop. Or you could add things to the molten glass to remove the metals, but it would be more expensive.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:37 am
 


More of the same crap from people who'll deny the sky is blue.
You already know someone who's got an EV, hybrid, or electric boost vehicle. Forgot your electric razor needs recharging every couple months, not days. That the metal you're looking at is from an arc furnace, the LCDs light your house with 1/10th the power of the house you grew up in. The "gamer" is using 100X more power than the little brick your laptop, tablet or all-in-one. Or for that matter, is full of capacitors that don't produce power, just store it for use later. That Dad's "instant on" TV ate more power while it was OFF than your 80" smart TV uses.
Not saying the days of oil for fuel are over, just stating the obvious. We've already crested the hill.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:38 am
 


Quote:
Likewise, solar panels are not made from unicorn farts.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:03 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
I actually knew that. (thank you decades of watching "How It's Made") ;) Molten glass is 'floated' on molten tin to produce flat sheets. I also know that tin + antimony is a RHoS substitute for the lead used in solder to make electronics, so I knew that 'float' glass containing antimony would cause problems in the glass manufacturing process.

I'm not sure about that, but could be?

I am most familiar with Pilkington's current offerings, and their antimony would be in the coatings applied to the glass, not the glass substrate.

Those coatings would be removed and recycled, long before a recycled piece makes it back to a float tank.

Other manufacturers may use different techniques.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:41 am
 


peck420 wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
I actually knew that. (thank you decades of watching "How It's Made") ;) Molten glass is 'floated' on molten tin to produce flat sheets. I also know that tin + antimony is a RHoS substitute for the lead used in solder to make electronics, so I knew that 'float' glass containing antimony would cause problems in the glass manufacturing process.

I'm not sure about that, but could be?

I am most familiar with Pilkington's current offerings, and their antimony would be in the coatings applied to the glass, not the glass substrate.

Those coatings would be removed and recycled, long before a recycled piece makes it back to a float tank.

Other manufacturers may use different techniques.


I am not that familiar with glass manufacturing, my experience is more in the semiconductors. You may very well be right. I do recall that the antimony is used as a self cleaning enhancer? That would make sense that it was a coating, not added in the glass furnace.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:01 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:

No, I can only figure out what you write. What you wrote didn't make sense.


^ That sentence doesn’t make sense either. A person only being able to take words at their literal face value and being unable to draw any conclusions from context is not “figuring out” anything it’s the exact opposite.

You’re really going to claim you couldn’t deduce anything from the context? I don’t believe that. I think you knew exactly what I meant but wanted to correct me....which is fair, I correct people all the time....but there’s no need to play dumb about it, is there?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:04 pm
 


NOTHING MAKE SENSE ANYMORE!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:08 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:

No, I can only figure out what you write. What you wrote didn't make sense.


^ That sentence doesn’t make sense either. A person only being able to take words at their literal face value and being unable to draw any conclusions from context is not “figuring out” anything it’s the exact opposite.

You’re really going to claim you couldn’t deduce anything from the context? I don’t believe that. I think you knew exactly what I meant but wanted to correct me....which is fair, I correct people all the time....but there’s no need to play dumb about it, is there?


I'm not 'playing dumb'. If Science has taught me anything, it's to not make assumptions. Assumptions leads to bias. So deciding how to interpret what someone means, as opposed to what they actually write, can never be a good thing.

You wrote "I’ll see petrochemicals become a secondary energy source during my lifetime". 'Petrochemicals' are not an 'energy source'. Not a lot of interpretation there.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:09 pm
 


llama66 wrote:
NOTHING MAKE SENSE ANYMORE!





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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:46 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:

No, I can only figure out what you write. What you wrote didn't make sense.


^ That sentence doesn’t make sense either. A person only being able to take words at their literal face value and being unable to draw any conclusions from context is not “figuring out” anything it’s the exact opposite.

You’re really going to claim you couldn’t deduce anything from the context? I don’t believe that. I think you knew exactly what I meant but wanted to correct me....which is fair, I correct people all the time....but there’s no need to play dumb about it, is there?


I'm not 'playing dumb'. If Science has taught me anything, it's to not make assumptions. Assumptions leads to bias. So deciding how to interpret what someone means, as opposed to what they actually write, can never be a good thing.

You wrote "I’ll see petrochemicals become a secondary energy source during my lifetime". 'Petrochemicals' are not an 'energy source'. Not a lot of interpretation there.



You’re not autistic, you don’t need to take things so literally. Surely you knew what I was referring to.


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