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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:38 am
 


Zipperfish wrote:
LSD? I don't think that was ever used therapeutically except in reserach. Thaldomide was a disaster for sure, but I'd be hard-pressed to find another example like that, and that was--what--50 years ago?

AIDS is a recent success story. And survival rates for cancer.

No argument from me on the public health agencies though.


Thalidomide is actually under study at the U of A as an cancer treatment or possible cure. The problem with Thalidomide was it was given to women as a treatment for menstrual cramps, but it was never tested on pregnant women to see if there were any adverse effects. It's perfectly safe, if you aren't pregnant. That's when they started testing on pregnant women, so ever since that mistake has not been repeated.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:45 am
 


Quote:
Then they introduced other products that they marketed under that umbra of miracle medicines: Thalidomide, Valium, LSD, and etc. and each of these 'miracles' turned out to be curses. Consequently trust was eroded.


LSD shows a great deal of promise in treating PTSD, and Thalidomide too is getting a new lease on life.....just not as a drug pregnant women would use
Quote:
Thalidomide proves useful for skin lesions and multiple myeloma

Research into potential uses for thalidomide has determined that thalidomide may be an effective treatment for several conditions. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved thalidomide (Thalomid) for treating:

Skin lesions caused by leprosy (erythema nodosum leprosum)
Multiple myeloma
Areas of thalidomide research

Researchers continue to investigate thalidomide for use in treating a variety of diseases and conditions. Though more study is needed, thalidomide has shown promise in treating:

Inflammatory diseases that affect the skin, such as cutaneous lupus and Behcet's disease
HIV-related mouth and throat ulcers, as well as HIV-related weight loss and body wasting
Cancer, including blood and bone marrow cancers, such as leukemia and myelofibrosis, as well as cancers found elsewhere in the body


Mayo Clinic link


Last edited by ShepherdsDog on Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:45 am
 


Pharma companies buy science that looks promising then sell it. Doctors order it in nearly ALL cases without understanding the science and therefore misuse it. Works on some but not on all. Doctors are NOT scientist nor should they speak for them.
Lab science cannot predict how a drug will work without human testing. Studies are done on a relatively small group compared to the number of end users. Gabapentin is perfect example. Developed in the UK for epilepsy, it was tested and released. Totally sucked compared to others in that class. Many years later it is one of the better treatments for certain types of pain. Thaldomide same thing. In fact my wife's mother took it once while carrying her with no notable birth defects. Currently it is used in the treatment of cancer, which I have had first hand experience with. In today's environment that would probably never happen as many of the testing models have been changed because of it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:49 am
 


Thalidomide was used in the late 50's to alleviate morning sickness in pregnant women.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:05 am
 


Also too many people calling themselves "scientists"


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:28 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Most recently it's the handling of the Ebola epidemic that's causing trust in scientists to decline. Just yesterday we had this gem surface:

Quote:
Dr. Tom Frieden, director of the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), said during a telephone press briefing Wednesday that you cannot get Ebola by sitting next to someone on a bus, but that infected or exposed persons should not ride public transportation because they could transmit the disease to someone else.


Did you get that?

See, if you don't have Ebola then you can't get it from sitting next to someone on a bus so don't worry about it.

But if you have Ebola then don't get on a bus because you might give it to someone sitting next to you and you should worry about that.

He's on video saying this in one breath. :roll:

Is it then any wonder that trust in scientists and the tortured logic they apply to their 'science' has eroded?


You can't get Ebola from being on the same bus as an infected person. It's not airborne. But you can get it if you come into contact with infected body fluids - such as sweat or if they sneeze in your direction, so people under quarantine should not be in public. I'm pretty sure this is what he meant to say.

Because a person has problems communicating complex ideas before cameras isn't a fault of the science. It's because so much doubt and distrust has been placed at the feet of science by the charlatans that people have trouble believing it when these little things crop up.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:32 am
 


I just wish science didn't have so much math. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:00 am
 


DonnaWho wrote:
I just wish science didn't have so much math. :D


That's the best part though!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:08 am
 


Bart made some good points about Big Pharma and how they paid for science they preferred. But that effect has spread to every industry where lobbies pay for science that makes them look good and then use their money to proclaim far and wide the "truth" in the science.

But the other problem is that science has become politicized, like everything else. There are now right wing "truths" and left wing "truths" and reality and facts will never penetrate the walls set up by their adherents.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:13 am
 


DonnaWho wrote:
I just wish science didn't have so much math. :D


You should have just taken biology


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:44 am
 


xerxes wrote:
Bart made some good points about Big Pharma and how they paid for science they preferred. But that effect has spread to every industry where lobbies pay for science that makes them look good and then use their money to proclaim far and wide the "truth" in the science.

But the other problem is that science has become politicized, like everything else. There are now right wing "truths" and left wing "truths" and reality and facts will never penetrate the walls set up by their adherents.

Kind of my point. People need to educate themselves to understand the difference between science and commerce. Although I can find no evidence of a Big Pharma ever purchasing science from an outside source.
To get a better idea of how a drug comes to market, read through this link. It is very similar to the US and many independent steps are taken to prove it's worth. This is about as simple as it gets. The applicant also pays for all trials and evaluations.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodphar ... fd-eng.php


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:46 am
 


xerxes wrote:
Bart made some good points about Big Pharma and how they paid for science they preferred. But that effect has spread to every industry where lobbies pay for science that makes them look good and then use their money to proclaim far and wide the "truth" in the science.

But the other problem is that science has become politicized, like everything else. There are now right wing "truths" and left wing "truths" and reality and facts will never penetrate the walls set up by their adherents.


Science that has become political isn't science anymore. Science isn't 'left' or 'right'. It's conclusions drawn from data and/or experiments. It has no political bias, but those who see everything as a political bias will adapt it to suit their own bias.

Gravity is gravity. It's not a planetary conspiracy to keep things from rising on their own, or a way to keep the masses down. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:48 am
 


ShepherdsDog wrote:
DonnaWho wrote:
I just wish science didn't have so much math. :D


You should have just taken biology

I did! In grade ten but all I remember is skipping out on frog day. Looking back I wonder why because by then I had helped saw a dead cow in half. [huh]
Oh well, live and still be confused... :D


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:22 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
You can't get Ebola from being on the same bus as an infected person. It's not airborne.


Not even the CDC is as sure of that as you are.

http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/air/manag ... lines.html

This CDC advisory urges airline staff to provide surgical masks to potential Ebola victims in order “to reduce the number of droplets expelled into the air by talking, sneezing, or coughing.”

In this advisory the CDC is also directing airline cleaning personnel to, “not use compressed air, which might spread infectious material through the air.”

It can't be spread through the air and the CDC says so but they're not so certain of this so they're instructing cleaning crews to take the same precautions as they would for an airborne pathogen.

Don't mind me if I'm not so convinced that this can't be passed around easier than we hear on TV.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:52 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
You can't get Ebola from being on the same bus as an infected person. It's not airborne.


Not even the CDC is as sure of that as you are.

http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/air/manag ... lines.html

This CDC advisory urges airline staff to provide surgical masks to potential Ebola victims in order “to reduce the number of droplets expelled into the air by talking, sneezing, or coughing.”

In this advisory the CDC is also directing airline cleaning personnel to, “not use compressed air, which might spread infectious material through the air.”

It can't be spread through the air and the CDC says so but they're not so certain of this so they're instructing cleaning crews to take the same precautions as they would for an airborne pathogen.

Don't mind me if I'm not so convinced that this can't be passed around easier than we hear on TV.


But that isn't 'airborne' transmission, it's still infection by fluids. For example, Tuberculosis is airborne because an infected person in close quarters can infect someone nearby simply by breathing.

Droplets in the air being inhaled is still 'direct' contact with infected fluids. No different than if they french kissed the person. It has to be a direct assault by those droplets, you can't come back in an hour and get Ebola. (unless they left scooge all over the seat or something)


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