[Wullu]

Who woulda thunk it?

Link


Edit : Title should have read "Economy of use" ......... hey it was early

[SideShowCecil]

One more ‘green’ solution that creates more pollution that it prevents, just like compact fluorescent light bulbs and curb-side recycling programs.

[hurley_108]

I don't dispute any of the info regarding the environmental damage caused by the production of the batteries, and worse may yet come when it comes time to dispose of them.

However, I have to question the lifespan figures given. 100 000 miles is a paltry lifespan for a Toyota. My parents' old '83 Corolla made it to 185 000 before needing any real work.

Also, I'd like to see the hummer that's still going after 300 000 miles.

In short, the whole article hinges on these two figures, neither of which are justified in any way in the article.

[SideShowCecil]

Perhaps the 100,000 mile figure relates only to the lifespan of the batteries in the hybrid vehicle. Though I seriously doubt the batteries would last that long. I’ve never gotten anywhere near that kind of performance from even a standard car battery. The high output batteries in my cordless tools are usually crapped out after 12 to 18 months of daily use.

[Blue_Nose]

SideShowCecil wrote:

One more ‘green’ solution that creates more pollution that it prevents, just like compact fluorescent light bulbs and curb-side recycling programs.

There are mixed results for curbside recycling - after reading an article that suggested recycling caused more harm than good, I emailed someone at the Halifax regional municipality - he made no bones about the fact that our recycling program here is profitable and environmentally friendly. His Master's thesis (written in the early 90s, I think) was on the feasibility of the program here, and it confirmed this.

That being said, I think Halifax has been a leader, at least in Canada, when it comes to recycling programs.

With respect to CFLs - I read another article (here) which suggested that, even if they are disposed of improperly - that is, crushed in a landfill - that they still generate less mercury pollution than that which is generated by the use of standard lightbulbs. That's because coal-fired plants generate mercury, and the extra energy used by standard bulbs creates more mercury.

[BartSimpson]

SideShowCecil wrote:

One more ‘green’ solution that creates more pollution that it prevents, just like compact fluorescent light bulbs and curb-side recycling programs.

Precisely! CFL bulbs when they break are now a Hazardous Materials Response in California due to the laws inherent in our Proposition 65. The average clean-up cost for a home or business when one of these buggers goes *poof* is over US$3,000.00 - which hardly makes them 'efficient'.

[Blue_Nose]

BartSimpson wrote:

Precisely! CFL bulbs when they break are now a Hazardous Materials Response in California due to the laws inherent in our Proposition 65. The average clean-up cost for a home or business when one of these buggers goes *poof* is over US$3,000.00 - which hardly makes them 'efficient'.

Bart's been reading too many chain emails

Your Federal Government Guidelines for Cleanup

Quote:

How should I clean up a broken fluorescent bulb?
EPA recommends the following clean-up and disposal guidelines:
1. Open a window and leave the room (restrict access) for at least 15 minutes.
2. Remove all materials you can without using a vacuum cleaner.
- Wear disposable rubber gloves, if available (do not use your bare hands).
- Carefully scoop up the fragments and powder with stiff paper or cardboard.
- Wipe the area clean with a damp paper towel or disposable wet wipe.
- Sticky tape (such as duct tape) can be used to pick up small pieces and powder.
3. Place all cleanup materials in a plastic bag and seal it.
- If your state permits you to put used or broken CFLs in the garbage, seal the CFL in two plastic bags and put into the outside trash (if no other disposal or recycling options are available).
- Wash your hands after disposing of the bag.
4. The first time you vacuum the area where the bulb was broken, remove the vacuum bag once done cleaning the area (or empty and wipe the canister) and put the bag and/or vacuum debris, as well as the cleaning materials, in two sealed plastic bags in the outdoor trash or protected outdoor location for normal disposal.

Unless you're paying $3000 for vacuum cleaners and rubber gloves, I think that's what people call "fear mongering".

[bootlegga]

hurley_108 wrote:

I don't dispute any of the info regarding the environmental damage caused by the production of the batteries, and worse may yet come when it comes time to dispose of them.

However, I have to question the lifespan figures given. 100 000 miles is a paltry lifespan for a Toyota. My parents' old '83 Corolla made it to 185 000 before needing any real work.

Also, I'd like to see the hummer that's still going after 300 000 miles.

In short, the whole article hinges on these two figures, neither of which are justified in any way in the article.

My Tercel made it to 250,000 before it needed any work too. In my experience, Toyota cars last much longer than domestics do.

I'd also challenge the author to source all the Hummer auto parts. I'm sure they all aren't built in the same plant as the Hummers. Odds are at least some of them come from all over the world just like Toyota parts.

[Kenazo]

bootlegga wrote:

hurley_108 wrote:

I don't dispute any of the info regarding the environmental damage caused by the production of the batteries, and worse may yet come when it comes time to dispose of them.

However, I have to question the lifespan figures given. 100 000 miles is a paltry lifespan for a Toyota. My parents' old '83 Corolla made it to 185 000 before needing any real work.

Also, I'd like to see the hummer that's still going after 300 000 miles.

In short, the whole article hinges on these two figures, neither of which are justified in any way in the article.

My Tercel made it to 250,000 before it needed any work too. In my experience, Toyota cars last much longer than domestics do.

I'd also challenge the author to source all the Hummer auto parts. I'm sure they all aren't built in the same plant as the Hummers. Odds are at least some of them come from all over the world just like Toyota parts.

I've actually had great results from GM cars. Our Sunfire had 220,000 km's on it when it got written off (rear-ended by a Toyota, coincidentally), and we hadn't put anything into it. My parents Olds Aurora has 320,000km's on it and I think they recently replaced the rad, and that's it.

[BartSimpson]

IceOwl wrote:

I still think the concept of curb-side recycling has a major flaw, especially when you bring composting into it. It would make more sense to encourage people to use less and for companies to produce less in the first place, and for people to reuse more before throwing everything to the blue bin. Just consider all of the fuel that has to be burned to get the stuff from the curb to the recycling plant, and then the energy needed to recycle is still more than it took to produce the original product.

And then we bring along curbside composting. If everyone that has a back yard did their own composting, this wouldn't be such a bad idea, since there would only be people in apartment buildings throwing their unwanted organic material to the curb. Instead, we'll be transporting tons of wet, smelly, decomposing vegetation off to some far away compost site, which will likely require a lot more fuel than it will to transport lighter materials like plastic, metal and paper.

My wife and I have been doing back yard composting for about 15 years now. Our little twist on it is that we have a compost bin on top of a pit that we fill up - as the detritus decays it fills the pit and then after a year or so we plant a tree in the compost pit.

You would be in utter heaven at the apricots we got off of one our trees this year!

This is a really great idea and you're dead on right with this.

[2Cdo]

BartSimpson wrote:

IceOwl wrote:

I still think the concept of curb-side recycling has a major flaw, especially when you bring composting into it. It would make more sense to encourage people to use less and for companies to produce less in the first place, and for people to reuse more before throwing everything to the blue bin. Just consider all of the fuel that has to be burned to get the stuff from the curb to the recycling plant, and then the energy needed to recycle is still more than it took to produce the original product.

And then we bring along curbside composting. If everyone that has a back yard did their own composting, this wouldn't be such a bad idea, since there would only be people in apartment buildings throwing their unwanted organic material to the curb. Instead, we'll be transporting tons of wet, smelly, decomposing vegetation off to some far away compost site, which will likely require a lot more fuel than it will to transport lighter materials like plastic, metal and paper.

My wife and I have been doing back yard composting for about 15 years now. Our little twist on it is that we have a compost bin on top of a pit that we fill up - as the detritus decays it fills the pit and then after a year or so we plant a tree in the compost pit.

You would be in utter heaven at the apricots we got off of one our trees this year!

This is a really great idea and you're dead on right with this.

This is getting to be a very scary week indeed. The other day I agreed with OPP on a subject and today I find myself agreeing with IceOwl!