[coaster_dot]

Alright so I am posting in need of a little advice again. This Spring I will be graduating from college with a very vague degree. The focus is Wed Development with computer graphics. After being in the industry for a tiny bit this semester I have come to realize that all of the high pay and in demand jobs are in the programming side of wed development. I currently know HTML, CSS, Java, PHP, Actionscript, along with few tastes of other languages.

Well after I get this degree I will have very little chance to a job besides freelancing. So I was planning on continuing school. But now I have to make a decision as to where I would like to end up next. I have a few options.

Option 1: Go back and get a 2 year degree in "IT Dev". I would learn C programming and advanced Java and PHP. Would be very cheap and quick to obatin and I can stay at my current school.

Option 2: Go to a University, pay 3 X's as much and get a "Computer Science" degree. It would be nice to have a Bachelors degree but it would require a lot of work and even more student loans to be taken out.

So I am wondering if anyone else out there in the programming fields have any advice as to what direction I should head towards. Does tje type of degree matter? Or is it more about what I know?

[CKASlacker]

I'm assuming you mean "web" and not "wed" development.

(Just so you know that I'm coming from a tech background -- I currently work in imaging research, but still do a crap load of writing software/IT stuff. I also still freelance/dabble on occasion in my 'previous' career of web development, with PHP, Perl, MySQL, Linux, HTML/CSS, etc).

Options 2 -- I hear you from the $$$ standpoint. I got my B.Sc. in Computer Engineering, and then went back years later for a M.A.Sc doing what I do now. It's not cheap, but don't underestimate the power of letters behind your name. You might be the best, most rational coder ever, but many companies won't even look at your resume without the degree. Unfair, perhaps. But a classical education should not be underestimated.

Option 1 is more practical for you now -- C programming is a little dated nowadays, unless you plan on working on coding real-time firmware or something, although it makes you appreciate the advantages of modern languages/libraries. Java/PHP would be handy, but only if they accompany the instruction with analysis, class design, software architecture, design patterns, etc. If they're just giving you the syntax and homework assignments, you're might be better off buying a book, reading, and coding stuff yourself. If you go the book route, I suggest anything from the "O'Reilly" series of 'animal' books (http://oreilly.com/animals.html). They're quality.

If you do option 1, add in a little system administration knowledge for yourself. If you're only familiar with a Windows background, learn Linux. Cobble together an old PC, Google for a good distro (I use Gentoo - can be a pain to work with, but you'll learn a shit-load, and has more 'street-cred' with developers than Ubuntu) and install. Setup a web server w/ Apache, code stuff for your site -- at least you'll then have a portfolio to show clients.

Option 2 is safer, but pricier in the short term. Option 1 can work, but you'll have to do some work on your own, and you might be free-lancing for a while anyways until you have a few gigs under your belt and have experience. I would lean toward option 2, but that's the route which worked for me.

Good luck.

[Bruce_the_vii]

The Computer Field is very competitive, tends to reward the "stars" but is still lucrative. You have to be very knowledgeable to move into those lucrative jobs, but it's worth the work. I have a degree in Computer Science and some extra training, about 41 technologies in all but am too dated to actually get a reply to my resume. I hope you get some further responses here about what to do because the IT market is a rabbits warren. Good luck.

[herbie]

They will be very impressed and then farm it out to India.
Just like all the geeks will be really impressed by Gentoo. And then work with Debian/Ubuntu, RedHat, BSD to earn a living.

[raydan]

Learn Hindi.

[jeff744]

CKASlacker wrote:

Options 2 -- I hear you from the $$$ standpoint. I got my B.Sc. in Computer Engineering, and then went back years later for a M.A.Sc doing what I do now. It's not cheap, but don't underestimate the power of letters behind your name. You might be the best, most rational coder ever, but many companies won't even look at your resume without the degree. Unfair, perhaps. But a classical education should not be underestimated.

Good luck.

Freelancing would increase his chances of skipping the application process as well if he did good work, companies are always looking for the ones that have proven their quality. I know when I was going to go to IAOD in Vancouver they would set up projects for their students (they made project groups) and around graduation employers would show up and look for people to hire.

[Bruce_the_vii]

There's a government institution that estimates the labour requirements in IT called the Information and Communications Technology Council (ICTC). They recently issued a report saying industry will need 50,000 more ICT over the next five years.

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C ... OttawaHome

However, some programmers are skeptical. Please see the comments. Another article on the same report I found indicated business want technical people with a business degree as well. Businesses will be fussy, like ideal candidates. I suggest you ask around as to what sells. There's still a lot of money in computers. I know three people that make over $200,000.

[CKASlacker]

herbie wrote:

They will be very impressed and then farm it out to India.
Just like all the geeks will be really impressed by Gentoo. And then work with Debian/Ubuntu, RedHat, BSD to earn a living.

Possibly - still, running a Gentoo box at home to learn makes using Ubuntu or whatever much easier later.

And I agree about the farming out - obviously, if he wants to be successful in the software world in the west, he'll have to differentiate himself on quality (and being available locally), since he can't hope to compete on price with India, Philippines, Eastern Europe, etc.

[Dragon-Dancer]

I'm a developer myself, I've been in the field for 12 years or so now. Web development is really a combination of the programming and the graphics element. If you can handle a bit of both you'll be well situated. In my opinion, a piece of paper generally doesn't matter a lick anymore. If you can prove ability through shown experience and good references you'll likely be able to hook yourself up with a decent job. Networking the right connections generally has a higher impact than any degree in this field. Freelancing could get you all those things and help to build your experience at the same time. I would suggest looking at job boards and such to see what technologies are most in demand and where possible taking some targeted continuing education courses to help shore up your experience when needed. Having a good web presence with samples of your work is also helpful.

[BartSimpson]

The next step in programming are programs that dynamically write their own programming.

[herbie]

I gave up on web design. They can't tell you exactly what they want, they change their minds every 3 minutes and no matter what you do they whine about it.
Now I say "Here's your webspace with Joomla. Make your own, any idiot can do it"

Got pissed off at our local Chamber, they just had their site made by someone out of town for 100X as much as they offered our local company. Then they got another grant and they intend to wipe it all out and redo it with another out-of-town idiot who keeps calling asking for help with shit anyone should know. The webspace & traffic, domain registration and renewal were FREE like most ISPs offer. They're moving it to a US hosting service and paying for the hosting....
So guess what, that original $25,000 site? Turns out the girl I just hired designed it. They subcontracted it out and she got a whole $1200.

That's what your up against. The last designer I knew got offered a job in Detroit about six years back. She borrowed the $$ from her Mom, flew there and after she made the cut, they offered to start her for $4.25 an hour.

[Scape]

Here's a great startup for you

[coaster_dot]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Yeah...Wordpress and Joomla are awesome. What used to take weeks now can take a few hours. I just got a few freelance jobs this month so I am hoping I can make a living off of this. I am doing a website for this band and I am charging then $60 But it's either that or nothing so I took it.

Anyone have experience with just freelancing? Is it something that I would be able to live off of?

[Dragon-Dancer]

If you get enough customers you might be able to. If you have a fairly wide experience with online media you have even more possibilities since well designed interactive content online is still a growing trend. If all you do is build static pages for small clients though you'll struggle since as mentioned there's lots of ways for people to do those themselves now. (As terrible as many of those sites actually look.)

[herbie]

That's the funny part. They'll buy some software, maybe take an hour to RTFM, 'do it themselves' and tell you that their website (that looks like someone performed an abortion on top of your monitor) is great. They're happy.