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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:35 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
So the reason it is so cold is because it is so warm?

It must be nice to have a theory or belief that's substantiated by all evidence.


It isn't unsubstantiated. You can prove it for yourself actually. Try putting a warm pie in a cold fridge. The pie gets cooler, and the fridge gets warmer. Because the pie is cooler, the fridge is warmer! Ain't thermodynamics amazing!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:40 am
 


DanSC DanSC:
eureka eureka:
Citing science is "knee jerk!"

Citing bad science is definitely knee-jerk. This usually occurs with confirmation bias.


Radiation physics is "bad science"? I'm sorry I'm going to have to insist you get rid of your NASA profile picture. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:44 am
 


I'll just point you to my response to eureka. Don't see why I have to write it twice.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:49 am
 


DanSC DanSC:
I'll just point you to my non-response to eureka. Don't see why I have to write it twice.


Fixed that for ya. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:56 am
 


Image Image:
DanSC DanSC:
I'll just point you to my non-response to eureka. Don't see why I have to write it twice.


Fixed that for ya. :lol:

At least make sure your flag identifier matches your demeanor.

/petty rant


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:14 am
 


eureka eureka:
Indeed I did. I would not even look at something that said there was such and such a temperature on any particular date, though. It is meaningless unless it was something quite out of the ordinary. Then it might have interest as some anomaly.


Okay. So let me get this straight: That it was cold is something you cite as supporting your belief that global warming is occuring and you're simultaneously dismissing the article that you admit you haven't even read because the science in it is questionable?

In sum, I may not be able to scientifically prove or disprove AGW based upon what's been presented in this topic but a couple things that I will cede that you have proven here:

1. You issued conclusions about the data while admitting that you have never even looked at the data.

2. You dismissed as ignorant the people who bothered to look at the data.

3. You're questioning the possibility of a -72C temperature at an altitude of 20km? Above the Arctic? Shows how much you know right there.

4. You really should have stayed off the net today. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:34 am
 


Let's just gloss over the large hole in the ozone layer too, while we're at it.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:11 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Let's just gloss over the large hole in the ozone layer too, while we're at it.


Remember the ozone hole from the 1990's that was going to kill us all! ? Perhaps you noticed that we're all still here?

Seems that solar sun spot activity is a major driver of ozone...much the same way electric motors create ozone. So during periods of low sun spot activity (like now) there's less ozone in the atmosphere.

I'm really not excited about it. It was not a problem 20 years ago and it is not a problem now.

But you feel free to go into survivalist mode and hunker down in your bunker awaiting the end times with the correct amount of aluminum foil in your helmet.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:06 pm
 


eureka eureka:
jeff744 jeff744:
Tell me why this climate change is so different from the previous ones, the earth produces a massive amount of C02, methane and other gases too.


Why it is so different, Jeff, is that it is caused by human activity. Entirely so! The first time in the history of the Planet, and, for all we know, the first time any life form has been able to affect the climate of this or any other world.

The Earth may produce those things. It does not need us adding to the production.

The Earth is far more powerful than humanity likes to believe that it is. While we contribute no matter how much we may try we can not even hold a candle to what the earth can and has done. Yellowstone alone ejected about 1,000 cubic km of material during its last election, iceland ejected 30 million cubic meters of tephra (total 140 million cubic meters of material). I have trouble believe that we are capable of causing multiple degree changes when we are also preventing carbon releases by controlling forest fires and trying to clean up messes that the earth makes.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:13 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Let's just gloss over the large hole in the ozone layer too, while we're at it.


Remember the ozone hole from the 1990's that was going to kill us all! ? Perhaps you noticed that we're all still here?

Seems that solar sun spot activity is a major driver of ozone...much the same way electric motors create ozone. So during periods of low sun spot activity (like now) there's less ozone in the atmosphere.

I'm really not excited about it. It was not a problem 20 years ago and it is not a problem now.

But you feel free to go into survivalist mode and hunker down in your bunker awaiting the end times with the correct amount of aluminum foil in your helmet.


So, I find it interesting that there is also a rise in skin cancers over the last 20 years. Something like 46% in the last 10 years. Like cigarettes, just because death isn't instant doesn't mean it's good for us.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:15 pm
 


jeff744 jeff744:
I have trouble believe that we are capable of causing multiple degree changes when we are also preventing carbon releases by controlling forest fires and trying to clean up messes that the earth makes.


And yet, every evening the temperature inside major cities is several degrees higher than the outskirts, and those temperature differences can be responsible for major storms downwind of the city.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:05 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
jeff744 jeff744:
I have trouble believe that we are capable of causing multiple degree changes when we are also preventing carbon releases by controlling forest fires and trying to clean up messes that the earth makes.


And yet, every evening the temperature inside major cities is several degrees higher than the outskirts, and those temperature differences can be responsible for major storms downwind of the city.

Pavement is one of the main causes of that and it is a localized event.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:26 pm
 


Are we talking about the Ozone layer again ? I did my part in the 90's with those CFC free cans and using fun gas in my A/C. Nothing more I can do.

Note to the Ozone Layer : Stop being so needy and clingy, you already had your 5 mins of fame like the comming of the Ice during the 70's and 80's. Now its G.Warming's turn, so Ozone Layer man the fuck up.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:26 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
So the reason it is so cold is because it is so warm?

It must be nice to have a theory or belief that's substantiated by all evidence.


It isn't unsubstantiated. You can prove it for yourself actually. Try putting a warm pie in a cold fridge. The pie gets cooler, and the fridge gets warmer. Because the pie is cooler, the fridge is warmer! Ain't thermodynamics amazing!


Yet it seems to be the opposite situation here. The 'pie'(arctic ocean and lower atmosphere) is supposedly warming and the air above it is cooling even more rapidly. Which seems to go against the laws of thermodynamics, relating to radiant heat.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:39 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
So, I find it interesting that there is also a rise in skin cancers over the last 20 years. Something like 46% in the last 10 years. Like cigarettes, just because death isn't instant doesn't mean it's good for us.


Now you're assigning causality to AGW?

That would be merely amusing were it not for that I am afraid you're serious.

The uptick in skin cancers has more to do with:

1) Improved health care in developing countries and increased reporting of all diseases, not just skin cancer.

2) The vast increase in the use of UV tanning beds.

3) The vast increase in tattoos. The FDA is now concerned about the link between toxic inks and skin cancer. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/ForConsume ... 143401.pdf

4) Skimpier bathing suits than we had twenty years ago. No, I am not kidding.

5) The vast increase in topical tanning creams of questionable (Chinese) origin.

6) An overdependence on sunscreen creams of questionable efficacy. The FDA is currently studying the claims of a number of sunscreens as to whether or not they actually provide the SPF factor they claim to provide. There's simply no substitute for covering up....especially if you live in the Arctic where the ozone layer is thin....which makes me wonder if there's been a corresponding uptick in skin cancers with the Inuit?


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