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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:27 am
 


The start of something big?

Jul 8th 2009
From The Economist print edition

Solar electricity may be about to attract real money


IT IS an old idea. Build solar power stations in the Sahara desert and transport the electricity produced to Europe using high-voltage, direct-current (HVDC) cables. It is simple in theory, but hard in practice—and very, very costly. But it is a carbon-dioxide-free way of making a lot of electricity, and a collecting area the size of Austria could supply the world.

A meeting on July 13th might get the ball rolling. Munich Re, the world’s largest reinsurance company, has invited 20 large companies (including Siemens, Germany’s engineering giant; power suppliers RWE and E.ON; and Deutsche Bank, Germany’s biggest) to join it in forming a consortium called Desertec. If all goes well, this will eventually build a legion of solar power stations in Africa and Arabia, and connect them to Europe.

The power stations in question will be “solar thermal”, rather than the better known sort relying on photovoltaic solar cells. In other words, instead of converting the sun’s rays directly into electricity using expensive semiconductor-grade silicon, they will use cheap metal mirrors to focus those rays either onto boilers that make steam to drive turbines, or onto containers of special low-melting-point salts that will store heat overnight, so that it is available to drive turbines during the hours of darkness.

Munich Re’s interest in the matter is to reduce the effects of global warming. “Climate change affects our core business of weather-related natural catastrophes,” says Peter Höppe, the head of the firm’s “geo risks research” department. Munich Re hopes that introducing solar power on a large scale will at least slow the process down a bit.

Large-scale investment would also provide economies of scale and stimulate innovation, thus reducing the cost of solar electricity. At the moment, no form of solar power is as cheap as coal-generated electricity, but solar-thermal is reckoned by many to be a better bet to get there than photovoltaics—a task that is also made easier by the extra cost of the permits to emit carbon-dioxide that the European Union now requires the operators of coal-fired power stations to hold.

If the scheme were implemented in full, it would involve spending €400 billion ($560 billion) at today’s prices, over the next 40 years, building enough solar power stations to satisfy 15% of European demand in 2050—together with most of North Africa’s and Arabia’s—and about 20 trans-Mediterranean HVDC cables which, unlike conventional AC power lines, can transmit power over long distances and through water without significant losses. A bold proposal, then. But not a completely outrageous one. As the old Chinese proverb has it, even a journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step.





Source: http://www.economist.com/displayStory.c ... extfeature


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:53 am
 


Yet again we rely on middle eastern/African nations that have no sympathies as far as the west to supply power to us in 1 form or another.
The idea is sound, the cost and pollitics unfortunatly aren't. Take this idea and implement it in say California's Death Vally or the regional desert areas in the US, with supplementation from the Sahara/Gobi desert regions, Antartica (which is supposed to be a pollitical no zone) and maybe it's an option.
I'm sure that with big investors onboard the cost factor can be a non issue, but pollitics will never go away.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:03 am
 


Choban wrote:
I'm sure that with big investors onboard the cost factor can be a non issue, but pollitics will never go away.

I'd have to agree with you. Sooner or later some of these African nations will go "Energy Embargo" on Europe for whatever reason. Colonialism, Imperialism, what have you.

Relying on something as essential as electricity from a foreign power, especially those that can/will have hostile intentions, is a bad idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:06 am
 


We are not European. If the Europeans beleive this will solve
their energy problems let them be.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:09 am
 


CommanderSock wrote:
We are not European. If the Europeans beleive this will solve
their energy problems let them be.


Hey, its their choice. I'm just saying why it isn't as feasible as it sounds. If we were living in the Star Trek universe, then hell yes I'd be jumping on this idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:16 am
 


commanderkai wrote:
CommanderSock wrote:
We are not European. If the Europeans beleive this will solve
their energy problems let them be.


Hey, its their choice. I'm just saying why it isn't as feasible as it sounds. If we were living in the Star Trek universe, then hell yes I'd be jumping on this idea.



Well the trans Saharan pipeline has already been approved. Europe will shift it's reliance to Nigeria from Russia for natural gas. Either way Europe really can t domestically meet it's power demands.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:02 am
 


Well, if nothing else, it's ambitious, I hope it works.

I'd also love to see companies in Canada add solar panels to new buildings, but until it's economical (after oil and gas go through the roof), it probably won't happen because shareholders tend to care more about dividends than they do about the environment.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:17 am
 


Choban wrote:
Take this idea and implement it in say California's Death Vally or the regional desert areas in the US,


Sounds good. Unfortunately environmentalists, and not-in-my-backyard politicians won't let you. Apparently there's tortoises in the desert.

Solar Energy V. Feinstein and the Tortoises

The NY Times had an article on the larger general problem here...

Environmentalists in a Clash of Goals


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:44 am
 


This would be a cool Project. As stated though, the stability of the Region might be the biggest hurdle against it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:31 pm
 


Quote:
Take this idea and implement it in say California's Death Vally or the regional desert areas in the US,


Sahara desert is hotter and receives more light. Also America can't power Europe's energy needs.

Some readers have proposed southern Spain or Italy, but its simply not feasible there. Sahara receives almost no rain and there is very few cloulds, if any.

Quote:
This would be a cool Project. As stated though, the stability of the Region might be the biggest hurdle against it.

Who's afraid of a few nomadic rebels, AlQueda and a slew of tyranical and unstable governments? Europe?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:16 pm
 


Terrific idea and I'm all for it 100%. If those liberal enviro-jerk dope-heads in California don't want to co-operate then I'm sure Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and Texas will be more than willing to take up the slack and free some available land for such projects. I'd even imagine that eventually they could also create some offshore facilities a couple of hundred miles out into the oceans that won't interfere with any wildlife at all.

This is the positive way things should be done. That way natural gas can be preserved for home heating purposes and not wasted (with polluting after-affects) for electrical generation.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:48 pm
 


his company is doing great things.

http://www.tesserasolar.com/north-america/


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:54 pm
 


CommanderSock wrote:
Quote:
Take this idea and implement it in say California's Death Vally or the regional desert areas in the US,


Sahara desert is hotter and receives more light. Also America can't power Europe's energy needs.

Some readers have proposed southern Spain or Italy, but its simply not feasible there. Sahara receives almost no rain and there is very few cloulds, if any.

Quote:
This would be a cool Project. As stated though, the stability of the Region might be the biggest hurdle against it.

Who's afraid of a few nomadic rebels, AlQueda and a slew of tyranical and unstable governments? Europe?


It's not about "Fear", but about practicality. A massive Project like this is hella Expensive and if used to meet a large part of Energy Needs the last thing you want is a bunch of schmucks blowing it up on you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:23 pm
 


Quote:
It's not about "Fear", but about practicality. A massive Project like this is hella Expensive and if used to meet a large part of Energy Needs the last thing you want is a bunch of schmucks blowing it up on you.


Employment for all. More Al Queda employees, more engineers, more african militias.


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