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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:48 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Why should one customer get power at one price, and another customer get a different price? I wouldn't patronize that company, nor would I want to run the billing department.


I hate to tell you this, but you do already - most utility companies charge different rates to residential areas and businesses.

This includes home-based businesses, so if someone on your block has a home-based business, odds are they are paying two to three times the per KW rate you are, even though they might be using less power than you are.

I know this because when my parents ran their own janitorial company from our home, they were charged 2.5 times what our neighbours were charged, even though no business activity took place at our home (unless you count typing up invoices on a manual typewriter once a month business activity).

That may have changed since they sold their business in 2001, but I highly doubt it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:49 am
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
Nothing weird about it. Ontario Hydro(in its day) pulled the same shit with Chrysler. The mini van plant in Windsor had its own power generation yet they still got hydro bills. They approached Hydro and suggested they shouldn't be getting billed for a service they don't use. They even offered to put excess generation into the system at no charge to Ontario Hydro (the excess would have powered roughly 100 homes). Hydro still said no. When Chrysler "threatened" to remove itself completely from the grid, Ontario Hydro told them they'd still get billed based on their average past useage.
And that was long before McGuinty's Green Energy failure.


Brilliant. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:53 am
 


Billing you for power you aren't using? Sounds like the Ontario way alright.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:57 am
 


saturn_656 wrote:
Billing you for power you aren't using? Sounds like the Ontario way alright.

I can't remember the exact time frame but it was either while Bob Rae was still ruining the province or shortly after Harris came into power.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:59 am
 


bootlegga wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Why should one customer get power at one price, and another customer get a different price? I wouldn't patronize that company, nor would I want to run the billing department.


I hate to tell you this, but you do already - most utility companies charge different rates to residential areas and businesses.

This includes home-based businesses, so if someone on your block has a home-based business, odds are they are paying two to three times the per KW rate you are, even though they might be using less power than you are.

I know this because when my parents ran their own janitorial company from our home, they were charged 2.5 times what our neighbours were charged, even though no business activity took place at our home (unless you count typing up invoices on a manual typewriter once a month business activity).

That may have changed since they sold their business in 2001, but I highly doubt it.


That's not a big deal to me, bulk customers get deals all the time and businesses negotiate their own power contracts.

I'm talking the generic residential customer. Why should be taxed more than my neighbour to support an outdated business model, just because I choose to not be dependent on a government regulated monopoly? I don't have a tax on my car that goes to support buggy whip manufacturers, why should there be an extra tax on a solar installation on my roof?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:06 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
I'm talking the generic residential customer. Why should be taxed more than my neighbour to support an outdated business model, just because I choose to not be dependent on a government regulated monopoly? I don't have a tax on my car that goes to support buggy whip manufacturers, why should there be an extra tax on a solar installation on my roof?

Because you still want grid supplied power when your government subsidized solar stops generating power.

This is no indication that the fees are being applied to buildings without any grid connection.

If everyday their is a fixed cost per customer of $10 then if someone only uses half the power, the fix cost price applied to their usage price would be double.

That isn't paying for the generated price of the power, fuel + operational personal and incurred wear on equipment, but rather the cost of having the plant exist able to generate power. This is exaggerated by the cheapest power sources tending to have the highest capital and fixed cost.

Don't want to pay the extra, then buy the bulk deal.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:16 pm
 


Did you read my be reply? People in Winnipeg ask "why" when I emphasize a house that never buys any power. The only reason for connecting to the grid is to sell power. Most people expect "net metering", which means sell power when you have it, buy when you need it. But I expect the utility will always manipulate the bill so the home owner always pays. The only way to ensure the home owner never pays, it to ensure power flows one way. The home owner gets a cheque every month, not a bill.

This horror story from Ontario is an example. But how can they justify billing a company based on "average past useage"? That's just theft.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:03 pm
 


Winnipegger wrote:
Did you read my be reply?
I did but I figured my other replies would have answered most of your points.
Quote:
People in Winnipeg ask "why" when I emphasize a house that never buys any power.
Takes space which not everyone has. Most newer homes don't have the space to be energy independent with solar, and thermal bores. Not to mention that the thermal converter setups cost too much and under deliver.
Quote:
The only reason for connecting to the grid is to sell power. Most people expect "net metering", which means sell power when you have it, buy when you need it. But I expect the utility will always manipulate the bill so the home owner always pays. The only way to ensure the home owner never pays, it to ensure power flows one way. The home owner gets a cheque every month, not a bill.
You likely are not going to want a cheque for a negative amount, which is what you get when everyone runs solar. The price for electricity when solar becomes more than 15% falls to zero or negative at peak solar output.

Your dreams of super effective solar power are nice, but it's useless without some massive advance in battery tech. Outside of pumped hydro their is no way to store electrical power cheaper than it is to make it on demand, even if that demand is just for 4hrs a day.

If we somehow made a new ultra cheap, long lived, high power battery we would be better off connecting it to our current generation and distribution grid letting our base load hydro and nuclear to charge up during the lower demand times to meet peak demand.

If solar ever was cheaper than coal or nuclear and we had the battery tech, and that solar was actually cheaper, not just subsidized and polluting in China that would be something. At least until we ran out of the elements needed to make it.

A far better solution which doesn't require any new tech is scalable LFTRs.

Solar power is best suited for low power applications in remote locations.

I have no problem with day operation business solar. So a business that's mostly active (using electricity) during the work day when the sun is up and have them plaster at full unsubsidized cost solar panels on their building. However most manufacturing runs round the clock and doesn't shut off for the peak demand.

Quote:
This horror story from Ontario is an example. But how can they justify billing a company based on "average past useage"? That's just theft.

I think a lot of details are missing from that, so I think you have repeated a tale that grew in each telling.


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