[Yank-in-NY]

Are you green? How many flights have you taken in the last year? Feeling guilty about all those unnecessary car journeys? Well, maybe ... all » there's no need to feel bad. According to a group of scientists brought together by documentary-maker Martin Durkin, if the planet is heating up, it isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do about it. We've almost begun to take it for granted that climate change is a man-made phenomenon. But just as the environmental lobby think they've got our attention, a group of naysayers have emerged to slay the whole premise of global warming.

1 Hour and 15 minutes.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... al+warming

[Wullu]

It won't be as popular as Gore's little ditty though Yank. After all, Durkin just used dreary old scientists who are experts in their fields and one British pol. Not a celebrity or adoring crowds to be found anywhere.

Well done documentary over all. I watched it twice yesterday. I loved it when the French researcher told the IPCC he would sue if they did not remove his name from the report! It takes a large amount of nerve to insist you are going to use someone's name when you have decided not to use any of their research. Gotta pad the list of names!

[riser-strap]

I no longer care about what the scientists have to say, though the naysayers have convinced me of nothing.

It is only sensible to reduce our impact as much as possible and I say that Canada should do whatever it takes to be at the forefront of all industries relating to the issue. Germany currently has the edge, but there is big bucks for those who do it first and do it well.

I care not for the anti green lobby, they want to keep us in the dark ages, those that move to green will own the naysayers through the slavery of economic domination while breathing easier.

[Wullu]

You care nothing about what scientists have to say? Then how can you possibly have anything remotely approaching an informed opinion?

But after just reading one post by you it is obvious you belong in the same realm as Shultz, where the world works only to your narrow and obstructed view.

That you Iggy?

[riser-strap]

Quote:

You care nothing about what scientists have to say? Then how can you possibly have anything remotely approaching an informed opinion?

But after just reading one post by you it is obvious you belong in the same realm as Shultz, where the world works only to your narrow and obstructed view.

That you Iggy?

I care about what the green scientists have to say, they have made sense, the others have not, I also see with my own eyes being from Toronto the damage we can do, have you ever seen a mine close up? How long do you think we can keep this up?

All science aside now, it cannot hurt us to reduce everything about our impact on the Earth, we can also gain economically by doing so.

There is no longer a question to me, just how are we gonna do it first.

Who's Shultz and Iggy?

[Zipperfish]

Sorry, the fourth volume of the IPCC report is the largest peer-reviewed scientific study ever. The science is all there in black and white. This conspiracy-theory notion that the right-wing idealogues that the mainstream media, the scientists adn teh left all got together ot pull one over on the right is simply not rational.

Fortunately the number of of people still grasping on to the "global warming conspiracy theory" are dwindling so we can start having some serious policy debate on what to do about it.

[Wullu]

Ok Zipperfish. Where, then are the scientists from the IPCC out there with their data? All you ever hear from that side is " the science is in!" No reference to any of the science, only that it is in. There are plenty of scientists from all over the world and the across the spectrum of weather research telling us all to take a deep breath and see what numbers actually say.

You know the real irony of all of this? As each IPCC report comes out the doom and gloom gets less and less dramatic but the reporting gets more and more hysterical.

[BartSimpson]

I'm all for reducing pollution for its own sake, but to do so in a panic because of a Global Warming (GW) scheme that says no matter if the weather warms or cools it is due to GW.

Sorry, that's not just cowardice it is BS.

The Kyoto Treaty is insanity because it just offshores pollution (and jobs and money) to China, India, Russia, and etc. and that pollution just blows back to us (as we saw in another thread) so why don't we just keep our jobs, money, and pollution at home until we figure it out instead of participating in Algores shell game to cripple the economies of the West and to hand our children's birthright over to someone else for no good reason at all?

Oh, yes, add to this the hypocrisy of Gore with his mansion that uses oodles of energy and his jet-setting that further wastes energy and, well, it all just gets me mad.

GW is a scam. Plain and simple.

[Wullu]

riser-strap wrote:

I care about what the green scientists have to say, they have made sense, the others have not, I also see with my own eyes being from Toronto the damage we can do, have you ever seen a mine close up? How long do you think we can keep this up?

All science aside now, it cannot hurt us to reduce everything about our impact on the Earth, we can also gain economically by doing so.

There is no longer a question to me, just how are we gonna do it first.

Who's Shultz and Iggy?

Have I ever seen a mine close up? Does being a hard rock miner for five years count? I have seen first hand the lengths that companys have to go to to minimze impact and how much of the profits have to be set aside for site reclamation. COMINCO just recently spent two years shutting down the Polaris mine on Little Cornwallis Island in the Arctic. Two years of zero profit and massive effort to turn a desert back into a desert.

Have many mines in Toronto do you?

All science aside? Did you really just type that? How do you expect to have an informed opinion if you are going to ignore the only valid source of data on a subject. Gut feelings don't cut it.

Reducing can't hurt and we can do it and make a profit? Back that one up!

[Wullu]

That is one of the biggest problems with the whole debate Bart. People refer to CO2 as polution. I am all for reducing pollutants being pumped into the atmosphere and the water tables. But let's get it down to real pollutants. A perfectly natural gas that has been part of the atmosphere of this planet since day one cannot count as a pollutant.

Another perfect example of this was at the end of the show. The co-founder of Green Peace mentioned that when he gave up on them they were in the process of starting a campaign to ban Chlorine. He asked them if they thought it a reasonable concept to try and ban an element on the periodic table.

[Zipperfish]

Wullu wrote:

Ok Zipperfish. Where, then are the scientists from the IPCC out there with their data? All you ever hear from that side is " the science is in!" No reference to any of the science, only that it is in. There are plenty of scientists from all over the world and the across the spectrum of weather research telling us all to take a deep breath and see what numbers actually say.

You know the real irony of all of this? As each IPCC report comes out the doom and gloom gets less and less dramatic but the reporting gets more and more hysterical.

The data is all out there already. The IPCC is a meta-study; it's a consolidation and analysis of existing work. Just regualrl scientists measuring tree rings here, or recording geothermal temperature readings there. No reference to any of the science? Perhaps if you're willfully blind.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson wrote:

I'm all for reducing pollution for its own sake, but to do so in a panic because of a Global Warming (GW) scheme that says no matter if the weather warms or cools it is due to GW.

Sorry, that's not just cowardice it is BS.

The Kyoto Treaty is insanity because it just offshores pollution (and jobs and money) to China, India, Russia, and etc. and that pollution just blows back to us (as we saw in another thread) so why don't we just keep our jobs, money, and pollution at home until we figure it out instead of participating in Algores shell game to cripple the economies of the West and to hand our children's birthright over to someone else for no good reason at all?

Oh, yes, add to this the hypocrisy of Gore with his mansion that uses oodles of energy and his jet-setting that further wastes energy and, well, it all just gets me mad.

GW is a scam. Plain and simple.

I've never said anything about panicking. I'm no fan of Kyoto either. That doesn't change the fact that climate change is real and very probably induced by humankind. This is a typical red herring used by the naysayers to detract from their losing science argument. You may believe it is a scam, and you are certainly entitled to your beliefs. They simply don't accord with the science.

Handing over our children's birthright? Maybe if those in charge of the tar sands up here spent a little more time worrying about what kind of planet they were going to leave to their children and their children's children, we wouldn't have this problem.

Personally, I agree wiht you. People make too big a deal of it. We're stuck with it now, and we'll have to find ways to manage it. Just like war, famine, and disease. A fact of life. I'm sick of the hysteria from the left and the right--whether it's prophecying the End Times due to gloabl warming or Muslims.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish wrote:

I've never said anything about panicking. I'm no fan of Kyoto either. That doesn't change the fact that climate change is real and very probably induced by humankind. This is a typical red herring used by the naysayers to detract from their losing science argument. You may believe it is a scam, and you are certainly entitled to your beliefs. They simply don't accord with the science.

Handing over our children's birthright? Maybe if those in charge of the tar sands up here spent a little more time worrying about what kind of planet they were going to leave to their children and their children's children, we wouldn't have this problem.

Personally, I agree wiht you. People make too big a deal of it. We're stuck with it now, and we'll have to find ways to manage it. Just like war, famine, and disease. A fact of life. I'm sick of the hysteria from the left and the right--whether it's prophecying the End Times due to gloabl warming or Muslims.

If climate change in the form of global warming is caused by human activity and pollution then why from 1947 to 1980 was the world cooler than in the first half of the 20th century when pollution was less? What caused the great global drought of the 1930's?

Did human activity cause that 33-year cooling period that had greenies concluding that pollution had started a new ice age?

Or was it just cyclical?

Myself, I see that fact that sea levels have risen about 400 feet since the last ice age to be an ongoing process and not something that arbitrarily stopped....when?

When did the warming from the last ice age stop?

Ah, that's the question the whole GW thing gets hung up on.

If the post ice age warming is still continuing then how can you say what portion of warming is natural and what portion is induced?

The unspoken assumption being promulgated in our schools and in our media is that 100% of the warming trend is man-made - more specifically, it is Western pollution causing GW while the media and the educational elites are silent about Asian pollution.

Sorry, it's just BS to me.

You may as well say that volcanoes are caused by human activity.

[Yank-in-NY]

BartSimpson wrote:

Myself, I see that fact that sea levels have risen about 400 feet since the last ice age to be an ongoing process and not something that arbitrarily stopped....when?

Well, I live right by the water in New York, when the waves start hitting my door, I'll let you know.

[riser-strap]

Quote:

Well, I live right by the water in New York,

You do... Can you see me? I'm the guy drowning, could you call 911 for me please.