[N_Fiddledog]

DrCaleb wrote:

N_Fiddledog wrote:

Yeah, I know it doesn't make sense, and all, and the best argument against it is ever since I can remember somebody's claiming to have a water-powered car, yet nobody's ever selling one. Still...what drives these guys, I wonder. Is there any sincerity at all? Is it all a scam, or is there something there that shows promise, so they exaggerate?

They catalize water using an Aluminum oxide reaction. So, they do split water to make hydrogen to run the car.

But making aluminum (and the agent to keep the reaction going) are very electricity intensive operations. There is no net-energy gain, they are simply moving the energy where the energy is needed from the aluminum smelter to the car.

True, and if you snoop around on the Genpax thing, they claim the real breakthrough is in the battery, so really they're just running a hydrogen powered car. Still...they say one of the problems with hydrogen power is the delivery system, by which you fill up. If they actually do have a way to split the hydrogen in the vehicle, wouldn't that be kind of a breakthrough in itself, providing of course, it doesn't require more energy than conventional methods of supplying hydrogen. The unanswered question there of course, is do they really have the hydrogen supplying breakthrough they claim they do. Best guess with available information is...show me. So far nobody's been able to do that.

[Blue_Nose]

If the vehicle is hydrogen fuel-cell powered, the water conversion is necessarily less efficient - the battery used for the electrolysis could simply be used to power the motor directly.

While I assume the vehicles described previously use internal combustion with hydrogen as a fuel source, it's probably still a less efficient use of the batteries than simply installing an electric motor

[hurley_108]

Zipperfish wrote:

DrCaleb wrote:

N_Fiddledog wrote:

Did you see last week where this Japanese company jumped on the water-powered car bandwagon with an actual, they-look-to-be-commercially-available car? It's been getting a lot of media play on the internet. Here's a link -

Genepax - Another Water-Powered Car

Oh! They painted "H2O Powered" all over it! It must be real!

Let me go take a picture of my 'Twin Turbo' Australian Shepherd.

(and if no one caught the sarcasm:)

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl? ... 14/1737231

It's frustrating, when fuel goes up, all the snake oil salesmen come out.

Snake oil, eh? Will it run a car?

You owe me a new monitor, Zip. I just spat iced tea all over mine because of that.

[Zipperfish]

hurley_108 wrote:

You owe me a new monitor, Zip. I just spat iced tea all over mine because of that.

Cheers

My first question for these new energy ideas is always: Does it contravene the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

A lot of times they don't, like this one.

[N_Fiddledog]

I'm gonna do a Benoit here...

The price of oil contradicts the second law of thermodynamics.

(OK, I'll be a nice guy, and slip out of character to explain that. The high price of oil makes a lot of things possible that maybe shouldn't be)

[sandorski]

herbie wrote:

Always wondered about what kind of mileage boost from running an air intake between the carb and the driver's seat. Then just change the national diet to include lots of 'bubble & squeak', beans, draught beer & pickled eggs.....

I'm in for that Diet part! Would need to change Drinking and Driving laws though.

[canuckns]

I know this isn't a water powered car, but the only by product is water. Honda FCX Clarity

[Scape]

Genpax

Too godd to be true?

[N_Fiddledog]

Have you come across this new one that's been popping up around the internet?

Basically you give them money, and they'll either sell you a converter, or show you how to build one which will allow you to create brown gas, or HHO, or whatever it's called from water as an engine additive. It's supposed to increase you gas mileage 40%.

Here's a couple of examples.

http://www.abc.com-waterpoweredcar.cn/

http://waterfuelkit.net/

[N_Fiddledog]

On the other hand, the BCTV consumer advocate Chris Olsen just did a segment advising all these fuel additive schemes popping up lately are scams.

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loca ... lumbiaHome

[hurley_108]

N_Fiddledog wrote:

Basically you give them money, and they'll either sell you a converter, or show you how to build one which will allow you to create brown gas, or HHO, or whatever it's called from water as an engine additive.

Brown gas, eh? That does sound explosive...

[C.M. Burns]

N_Fiddledog wrote:

I'm gonna do a Benoit here...

The price of oil contradicts the second law of thermodynamics.

[dog77_1999]

Blue_Nose wrote:

If the vehicle is hydrogen fuel-cell powered, the water conversion is necessarily less efficient - the battery used for the electrolysis could simply be used to power the motor directly.

While I assume the vehicles described previously use internal combustion with hydrogen as a fuel source, it's probably still a less efficient use of the batteries than simply installing an electric motor

You are 100% correct. Having an electric motor would be alot better. 95% conversion instead of the 20% from combustion.

Even so, why would you inject hydrogen into an engine? A fuel cell can get 60% efficiency.

[Blue_Nose]

The question I have is, what exactly is happening in these cars? Are they running off batteries to perform the electrolysis, or are the "inventors" just flat-out lying and using some other source of energy?

[Scape]

Hard to say. Until there is more known it looks like snakeoil but one can hope.