[Dr Caleb]

Anywhere!?! Everywhere!!<br /> <br /> <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods'>Operation Northwoods</a><br /> <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuban_Project'>Operation Mongoose</a><br /> <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio'>Operation Gladio</a><br /> You can go back to 1898 and the <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_%28ACR-1%29'>USS Maine</a> if you like.<br /> <br /> A <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag'>Long list</a><br /> <br /> Stockwell Day looks more and more like 'Ed the Sock' everyday. The only thing worse that Day for Canada is if Ignateff leads the Liberals.<br />

[gaulois]

Ooopsie. Did not make myself clear when I reread. I actually meant False-flag operations on the Net ITSELF.<br /> Could not see this documented.<br /> <br /> It's only logical that these will happen on the Net itself, if they have not already. I suspect they have somewhere for "test purposes". The impact of blocking a country Internet backbone looks quite severe IMO (without hosing oneself doing so).

[Dr Caleb]

Ahhhh! *Against* the net. I see. The short answer? No. The long answer? Not possible.<br /> <br /> The only way to disrupt traffic across the whole 'Net (because disruption of a single country would simply route through others) would be to disrupt all root servers on the Internet. <br /> <br /> The root servers are in heavily fortified bunkers, the location of which is kept secret. I believe there are 10 root servers throuought the world, and thousands if not hundreds of thousands of second level domain servers. Logistically, it would be next to impossible to block off a random country from the 'net. <br /> <br /> There are exceptions, such as Saudi Arabia, where the 'net was implemented in such as way as to allow the 'decency' police to monitor all internet traffic, thereby creating a single point of failure. But, if SA were to drop off the net, no one would notice anyway.<br /> <br /> The closest thing to that were serious worldwide virus outbreaks which caused massive traffic congestion, but that is even hit and miss as some companies got hit, others were untouched (any where I run the IT show . The east coast blackout was another major hit, but only in North America - it didn't really affect the Pacific Rim or Asia.

[gaulois]

Since the root-servers are centralized, it looks to me pretty easy to do as an "inside-job". Much easier and cheaper than 9/11. With quite an impact too!

[Dr Caleb]

No, they aren't. The root servers are all individually in 10 different undisclosed locations, in 10 different countries. It would be very obviously an inside job, if someone were to attack all 10 at the same time.

[gaulois]

I was thinking more of the backbone *within* a single country and likely the main transmission paths. Can't reroute when most of the capacity has been taken down.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= gaulois] I was thinking more of the backbone *within* a single country and likely the main transmission paths. Can't reroute when most of the capacity has been taken down.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> That would be tantamount to finding a particular single blade of grass in a prairie field. I'm not saying 'impossible', just really really difficult.<br /> <br /> Let me give you some perspective. While no actual 'map' of the Internet exists, there have been a few maps to visualize just what the internet looks like. Here is <a href='http://www.cheswick.com/ches/map/gallery/wired.gif'>One.</a> It shows just the first 20 layers of routers, or something.<br /> <br /> These are representations of the <a href='http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/cox_1457_large.jpg'>continental</a> US and <a href='http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/munzner_default.jpg'>mBone</a> international connectivity backbone. Keep in mind, some connections are via satellite.<br /> <br /> The Internet was designed to survive multiple direct nuclear strikes, and still remain functional. Disrupting it (other than in countries that didn't specifically implement it to be single point of failure) is one major undertaking, if not impossible.

[chall]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] It would be very obviously an inside job, if someone were to attack all 10 at the same time.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yeah. Inside job. Good thing that never happens. And even if it did, noone would believe it, right? Like that pesky, cave-dwelling Arab outfoxing the world's most advanced defence system. Obviously NOT an inside job, go back to sleep, nothing to see here. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <br /> <br /> But then why bother to take the system down when theres all sorts of back doors that allow spying and the manipulation of content?

[gaulois]

[QUOTE BY= chall] ...<br /> But then why bother to take the system down when theres all sorts of back doors that allow spying and the manipulation of content? [/QUOTE]<br /> Shock&awe! Welcome to Vive chall BTW. <br /> <br /> Could Dr. Caleb have gone false flag? Look at his icon for heaven's sake. <br /> <br /> China and Russia are apparently leading the way on cybernetic warfare. Hmmm. What are the USA up to then??? Do we in fact know that the USA (&a deeply integrated Canada) have not implemented it to a single point of failure (or a small set of) somewhere? In the name of resisting an earthquake, yeah right...

[chall]

Thanks gaulois, but Ive been around for a while now, just never had the desire to post on the forum. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/cool.gif' alt='Cool'> <br /> <br /> Im sure false-flag ops are going on all the time on the net, disinformation being the prime weapon. My point is though, why bother to take down the system when ECHELON, PROMIS and the covert continuation of TIA provide all the required bang for the buck? If communications needed to be disrupted for any reason, the deprivation of service techniques described above would work just fine. This provides the prime false-flag requirement of redirection of attention or plausible deniability. Because the sheep are so ignorant and sedated, theyll believe anything, no matter how far into the face of logic it flies.

[gaulois]

The reason why I started to think of this is all this alternative Net stuff that is causing a lot of grief to Bush&Co. Don't think they know how to control this and will find ways to do so. More false-flag ops seem to be their only way of thinking.<br /> <br /> What can they do when People no longer believe their mainstream medias? I think we are heading into this tipping point.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= chall]<br /> Yeah. Inside job. Good thing that never happens. And even if it did, noone would believe it, right?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> No one who has a clue would. It would be like breaking into every vault at every branch of every G-8 Countries Central Bank around the world at the same time. <br /> <br /> No way that is anything but an inside job, especially since only a handful of people even know the locations of all the root servers. And even if that was successful, the secondary domain servers would take over for up to 14 days.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= gaulois]<br /> Could Dr. Caleb have gone false flag? Look at his icon for heaven's sake. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Hey! Don't be dissing Bert! He taught me English! I was really sad to see him on so many front pages around the world, trying to teach english to Osama after 9/11 <a href='http://www.snopes.com/rumors/bert.htm'>(True Story!)</a><br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= gaulois]<br /> What can they do when People no longer believe their mainstream medias? I think we are heading into this tipping point.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Indeed. Vive has always maintained our ability to be independent. We control our own bandwidth, and our own servers (through the collection of donations). If the PTB's wanted us 'gone', they would find that a very difficult thing to do.<br /> <br /> I have no idea why my message appears way over here<br /> <br /> {-----

[gaulois]

Stockwell Day meeting Rumsfeld couple weeks ago in Banff is a very scary idea. Day is the one that told us to be vigilant. I am only being vigilant.<br /> <br /> I would think that Vive is susceptible to these false flag operations and I will keep a close eye on your messages, cher Dr. Caleb. There has been a few odd ones lately. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'>

[chall]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] No one who has a clue would. It would be like breaking into every vault at every branch of every G-8 Countries Central Bank around the world at the same time. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Exactly. 9/11 is in the same category, yet most of the world still believes Bert's buddy did it. Noone who has a clue would, though, right?<br /> <br /> While Vive may be impervious due to the coding chops and internet savvy of the good Doctor, I would be surprised if we WERENT being monitored. Or if there were users who were here to spread disinformation. Or trolls created by people to inflame other people in order to prevent this place from becoming an echo chamber.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= chall]... I would be surprised if we WERENT being monitored.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I am sure we are. Every once in a while, some random person emails me and asks if my nom-de-plume means anything, and if I post to other sites using it. Presumabally this is to profile me, and see if certain details can be stiched together to identify me. Sometimes I lie, and say 'yes', sometimes I lie and say 'no, that's a stalker'. I throw enough red-herrings out there about myself that I must appear to eschelon as being one f-d up dude.<br /> <br /> Our only right to privacy is that which we choose to defend for ourselves. I get no junk mail, because I pay for everything with cash. I get no telemarketer calls, because I have no home phone. I know how the system works, and I know how to avoid it so that my private life is my own.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= chall]Or if there were users who were here to spread disinformation. Or trolls created by people to inflame other people in order to prevent this place from becoming an echo chamber.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Assuming that all of your accusations are true, and that I am their cell leader . . .Dude, that is just no way to live! Unless you want to be the crazy old man with all the cats in your neighbourhood who listens to the hand cranked Victrola all day. Like Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= gaulois]<br /> I would think that Vive is susceptible to these false flag operations and I will keep a close eye on your messages, cher Dr. Caleb. There has been a few odd ones lately.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> ???? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/eek.gif' alt='Eek!'> <br /> Remember G, you have to make the tinfoil hat yourself, and use real tin, not aluminum foil. <br /> <br /> What's with the page formatting lately??<br /> {-----