[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

jerrysb jerrysb:

let me be clear. There just seems to be more than necessary us bashing on this site, "only in the US" is a good example. And so you're a yank, big deal.

Yeah, I probably worded that wrong, it's just I posted that after the game and it was more of a comment for comedy, not for a put down towards the US. You are really taking it too seriously. I just made the comment because of the US's history of funny things happening, and the fact that they had to bring riot police out over a baseball game. And yes, I'm a yank, and I'm entitled to say what I want about my country, and if you have a problem with it, I suggest you deal with it, because we have something called FREE SPEECH!

I just got done watching when the riot police came out over the game, and I thought to myself "only in America" so I wrote it here. Now, riots happen in other countries over games, so that was not the right word, but it was an overall assetment of the goofy things that happen in the US...

[jerrysb]

you're right, free speech is saying what you want. I would go so far as to say free speech is a foundation to our form of democracy. I remember around 9/11, when poeple where critisizing bush for his decisions. The rest were calling them un-patriotic. (i'm being vague about who i'm talking about. I'm just trying to describe a feel of the time) Is that free speech? Sure everyone got to to say their 2 cents, but isn't free speech more?

p.s. i may be wrong. Maybe it wasn't like that at all so please tell me. Ignorance may be bliss, but it sure isn't a good way to live your life. Squandered brains i call it.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

jerrysb jerrysb:

you're right, free speech is saying what you want. I would go so far as to say free speech is a foundation to our form of democracy. I remember around 9/11, when poeple where critisizing bush for his decisions. The rest were calling them un-patriotic. (i'm being vague about who i'm talking about. I'm just trying to describe a feel of the time) Is that free speech? Sure everyone got to to say their 2 cents, but isn't free speech more?

p.s. i may be wrong. Maybe it wasn't like that at all so please tell me. Ignorance may be bliss, but it sure isn't a good way to live your life. Squandered brains i call it.

Umm okay, I do not see how I am ignorant for trying to say a little joke about the game and riot police. Maybe it wasn't funny, and maybe it wasn't entirely correct in terms of past riots for sports events, but I do not see how this has anything to do with Bush, and now you are just bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with my original post. Free speech is more about saying and expressing yourself how you want, to me, and if you have a problem with someone saying something, you should be able to voice it, if you think they are being un-patriotic, you should be able to say it, but the other side should be able to say what they want also. Overall, I do not see what your post has to do with mine, and I think you are just looking for an arguement...

[jerrysb]

you're right so sorry. gotta remember to choose my fights better. To go from roit police in new york to free speech is a little far fetched.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

Sox Fan's Death Raises Questions on Force

By DENISE LAVOIE, Associated Press Writer

BOSTON - The death of a college student from a pepper-spray-filled projectile sparked anger and questions Friday about whether police used too much force to break up rowdy Red Sox revelers outside Fenway Park.


The mayor said more police will be at neighborhood bars during the upcoming World Series (news - web sites) to make sure fans do not get too drunk or rowdy, but he backed off his threat to ban alcohol in the area during the games.


Police Commissioner Kathleen O'Toole said police are considering discontinuing the use of the weaponry that killed Victoria Snelgrove as officers tried to contain an estimated 80,000 fans who poured into the area after the Red Sox victory Wednesday at Yankee Stadium in New York.


O'Toole said the officers showed "great restraint" but had to fire the projectiles after a few revelers set small fires and threw bottles at police and vandalized property, endangering others. Snelgrove, a 21-year-old Emerson College student, was hit in the eye and died hours later.


The plastic balls of pepper spray, which are propelled from devices similar to paintball guns, are meant to help police control large groups without injuring people.


"We want to use the least force necessary in order to maintain the crowd," O'Toole said. "Very unfortunately, it resulted in a horrible action."


Mayor Thomas Menino decided against invoking a rarely used state law to ban the sale of alcohol "in cases of riot or great public excitement" after meeting with about two dozen bar and restaurant owners Friday.


Instead, the city and bar owners agreed to limit the number of people lining up to enter Fenway-area clubs and to prevent live television coverage inside the bars so patrons do not get rowdy as they play to the cameras.


Fifteen people, including a police officer, suffered minor injuries in the game's aftermath, and Boston police reported eight arrests, mostly for disorderly conduct.


Several people who were near the area where Snelgrove was shot said the crowd seemed under control when the pepper-spray balls were fired.


Doug Conroy, 33, of Portland, Maine, said he and several other people had climbed the rafters of Fenway's famed Green Monster when police began to order them back down. He said he saw an officer in riot gear shoot something into the crowd below him.


He said he heard a woman scream, then heard sobbing. "A lot of people then looked over and saw her lying awkwardly on the sidewalk and blood coming out of her nose. She wasn't moving and we were just hoping she was just unconscious," Conroy said.


He called the police action "an egregious overreaction."


"There was nothing violent going on. It was all celebration," he said.


Boston police bought the projectile weaponry for crowd control during this summer's Democratic National Convention, but did not use it then because protests remained relatively subdued.


Melvin L. Tucker, a security consultant who specializes in the use of force by police, said "less-than-lethal" weaponry has become an increasingly popular among police departments around the country over the past five years as a replacement for tactics such as nightsticks and tear gas.


"This is generally a lot safer. It's a real tragedy," said Tucker, a former police chief of Tallahassee, Fla., and Asheville, N.C.





Emerson College canceled classes Friday, held a counseling session and tentatively scheduled a memorial service next week for Snelgrove, whom friends and teachers described as a hardworking student who dreamed of becoming an entertainment reporter.

When journalism professor Bob Klinkscale read the news to his class Thursday, "It sounded like the air was sucked out of the room," he said.

Grief turned to anger at the offices of the Boston Herald, where readers called and e-mailed to complain about a graphic front-page photo of a bleeding Snelgrove lying on the ground. The newspaper issued an apology for that photo and a smaller one inside Thursday's editions.

Snelgrove's death was the second in Boston this year during rowdy celebrations of sports victories. Police were caught understaffed when riots broke out after the New England Patriots' Super Bowl win Feb. 1. One person was killed and another critically injured when a vehicle plowed into revelers.

In a Boston sports brawl last year, former New York Yankees players Jeff Nelson and Karim Garcia are scheduled to go on trial Tuesday on charges of assaulting a Fenway Park groundskeeper who cheered the Red Sox during the 2003 American League Championship Series. Prosecutors on Friday dropped charges against the groundskeeper, whom Nelson had accused of bumping him and spitting on him.