[BeaverFever]

I missed where Bart stands on whether government employees should be able to refuse service. Should a government employee be able to refuse service to a Black person or a Conservative person?

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I missed where Bart stands on whether government employees should be able to refuse service. Should a government employee be able to refuse service to a Black person or a Conservative person?

Nope. Like with the various clerks who are refusing to issue gay marriage licenses I respect their right to quit their job if that's the only choice their jurisdiction gives them. This is the case in small agencies where only one clerk is staffed for this kind of work.

But in cases where another clerk is available to process the marriage license then it becomes a reasonable accommodation to let the objecting clerk have someone else perform that function.

My precedent on this is that several US jurisdictions permit clerks to request that someone else process liquor licenses when the clerk is not allowed to encourage drinking alcohol by their faith. In particular this applies to Muslim clerks in Minneapolis, Minnesota and Oakland, California.

It hasn't come up yet but I don't imagine any Muslim clerks will be forced to process gay marriage licenses.

[Thanos]

Should a serving soldier in the military be legally allowed to not follow orders simply because he doesn't like his commanding officer or the prime minister/president that currently occupies the role of commander in chief? This series of exceptions leads to nothing but chaos. Hold your goddamn nose, keep your damn mouth shut while you're at work, and do your fucking job already.

[BartSimpson]

Tricks Tricks:

$1:

I firmly believe in equal protection before the law. That means that the government is obligated to treat all citizens equally.

Before you jump to the conclusion that this somehow protects gay marriage keep in mind that while I want equal rights for people I do not assert that all behaviors are to be treated equally.

Why should they not be treated equally?

I've said this before that I want pedophiles to have the same rights as everyone else. Even if they are accused of a crime I still want their rights respected and I want them to receive fair treatment under the law.

And if they live their lives with the sexual orientation of being attracted to children while never acting on it then they have a right to be left alone.

But if they commit an act I do not want that act to be treated the same as two adults doing the same thing would be treated.

In the case of non-standard relations - like with adultery for instance - I would not want an adulterous affair to be treated with the same respect as a committed marriage because that necessarily reduces the importance and significance of a committed marriage.

Meaning that I have no friends who "shack up" outside of marriage and those people who do so can expect that I am not going to give any blessing to their relationship.

In short, the person should be treated justly but their behavior does not have the same right.

[Tricks]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I've said this before that I want pedophiles to have the same rights as everyone else. Even if they are accused of a crime I still want their rights respected and I want them to receive fair treatment under the law.

And if they live their lives with the sexual orientation of being attracted to children while never acting on it then they have a right to be left alone.

But if they commit an act I do not want that act to be treated the same as two adults doing the same thing would be treated.

Are you drawing a parallel between homosexuality and pedophilia?

$1:

In the case of non-standard relations - like with adultery for instance - I would not want an adulterous affair to be treated with the same respect as a committed marriage because that necessarily reduces the importance and significance of a committed marriage.

Meaning that I have no friends who "shack up" outside of marriage and those people who do so can expect that I am not going to give any blessing to their relationship.

In short, the person should be treated justly but their behavior does not have the same right.

So you don't want people being intimate before marriage, that's fair. But if you take away one's ability to get married you're saying you don't want them to be intimate at all aren't you? Or would it not matter because it is "non-standard"? And why does it matter if it isn't non-standard? Do you have a fundamental issue with homosexuals in general?

[BartSimpson]

Tricks Tricks:

Are you drawing a parallel between homosexuality and pedophilia?

$1:

Of course. Heterosexuality and pedophilia are also parallel. The argument has been made and I've embraced it that people have sexual orientations and preferences and that there's no cure or treatment for such things. That said, a pedophiliac is forever a pedophiliac and the best we can hope for from them is that they never act on their impulses. The ones who do act on those impulses necessarily need to be segregated from society for the safety and well being of children.

Tricks Tricks:

So you don't want people being intimate before marriage, that's fair.

I didn't say that. What I said is that I don't want an adulterous relationship being given the same respect and recognition as a committed marriage. Meaning Charlie Sheen's fling with some random hooker is not a relationship on par with my marriage of near 28 years.

Tricks Tricks:

Do you have a fundamental issue with homosexuals in general?

Ah, we get to the heart of the matter.

I initially wrote a long response to you and then I realized that you're probably not going to read it as I wrote it so I'll keep it simple:

When a Western society strays from its moral compass it declines. And what follows it has never been a good thing.

Rome devolved and degenerated and what followed was a millennium of darkness.

France devolved into debauchery and corruption at the end of the 1700's and they've never come back from it. The weakened republic embraced the libertine and was unable to withstand Napoleon.

Weimar Germany practically bathed itself in debauchery and so weakened itself that it was helpless to stop Hitler.

The US is embracing the effeminate and if we continue on we will be unable to withstand what comes next.

It's just how things work.

While this may offend your enlightened 21st Century sensibilities the fact remains that plenty of Europeans, Canadians, and Americans are flocking to Islam and ISIS because they are looking to strength and they are looking for a validation of masculinity as opposed to the condemnation of masculinity that is currently popular in our collective Western culture. People outside of our culture readily see this and they capitalize on it and they count on it to make us weak.



Personally, I'm happy I don't have children because I don't need to worry what will happen to them after my time here is done.

That's because I am certain that whatever comes next is going to be hell on earth.

[Thanos]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

That's because I am certain that whatever comes next is going to be hell on earth.

I am too, but for different reasons. It's not just the politics and the upcoming religious Armageddon. It's also the imminent collapse of the environment as the anthropocene mass-extinction gathers steam. Nothing can stop it now. There's too damn many people competing for too few resources and the other species on this earth are going to be virtually annihilated by the competition. Two hundred years from now there'll be less than a billion humans left, and they'll all be sitting around dung-fires eating leaves or each other.

[ShepherdsDog]

That's about 700 million too many.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

That's because I am certain that whatever comes next is going to be hell on earth.

I am too, but for different reasons. It's not just the politics and the upcoming religious Armageddon. It's also the imminent collapse of the environment as the anthropocene mass-extinction gathers steam. Nothing can stop it now. There's too damn many people competing for too few resources and the other species on this earth are going to be virtually annihilated by the competition. Two hundred years from now there'll be less than a billion humans left, and they'll all be sitting around dung-fires eating leaves or each other.

I am hopeful that technology will enable some brave souls to venture into space and to make a new home for themselves just as some Europeans once turned their backs on Europe never to return.

They'll leave the earth to wallow in the stagnancy of socialism and atheism and they'll make a new home for themselves somewhere else.

And if someone amongst them ever says, "Well, back on Earth the enlightened people do this thing and so should we..." then I hope they have the sense to rip his spine out.

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I missed where Bart stands on whether government employees should be able to refuse service. Should a government employee be able to refuse service to a Black person or a Conservative person?

Nope. Like with the various clerks who are refusing to issue gay marriage licenses I respect their right to quit their job if that's the only choice their jurisdiction gives them. This is the case in small agencies where only one clerk is staffed for this kind of work.

But in cases where another clerk is available to process the marriage license then it becomes a reasonable accommodation to let the objecting clerk have someone else perform that function.

My precedent on this is that several US jurisdictions permit clerks to request that someone else process liquor licenses when the clerk is not allowed to encourage drinking alcohol by their faith. In particular this applies to Muslim clerks in Minneapolis, Minnesota and Oakland, California.

It hasn't come up yet but I don't imagine any Muslim clerks will be forced to process gay marriage licenses.

So you don't think same sex marriage should be illegal! You just want conscientious objectors to be accommodated!

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

They'll leave the earth to wallow in the stagnancy of socialism and atheism

Wait, don't the religions teach that God only blessed Earth with the gift of life? If so, wouldn't your new trans-planetary civilization only include "atheists"?

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

They'll leave the earth to wallow in the stagnancy of socialism and atheism

Wait, don't the religions teach that God only blessed Earth with the gift of life? If so, wouldn't your new trans-planetary civilization only include "atheists"?

Funny, I'm usually having this argument in Bible study at church.

In any case, there's nothing in Scripture that say this is the only habitable planet that God created.

[PluggyRug]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

They'll leave the earth to wallow in the stagnancy of socialism and atheism

Wait, don't the religions teach that God only blessed Earth with the gift of life? If so, wouldn't your new trans-planetary civilization only include "atheists"?

Funny, I'm usually having this argument in Bible study at church.

In any case, there's nothing in Scripture that say this is the only habitable planet that God created.

There are many, Earth is His first failed experiment.

[herbie]

$1:

When a Western society strays from its moral compass it declines. And what follows it has never been a good thing.

Rome devolved and degenerated and what followed was a millennium of darkness.

A preacher's view of history rather than a teachers. Omitting any effect of the conversion to Christianity n Imperial Rome and sidestepping the fact the early Church was the main cause of the Dark Ages in Europe.
As for the rest of your beliefs, toss the word Allah in a couple of times and it's almost identical to that of fundamental Muslims. Paternalistic, fatalist and anti-human.
No wonder you're so obsessed with them.

[BartSimpson]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

There are many, Earth is His first failed experiment.

God didn't fail. We did.