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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:36 am
 


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezr ... _blog.html

The Economic Policy Institute is out with a graph breaking the 2012 deficit into its component parts:

Image

The takeaway is that absent the financial crisis and the aftereffects and continuation of George W. Bush-era policies, deficits would be quite manageable in 2012. And note that this isn’t a conclusion unique to EPI. You can see it in Pew’s graph, which showed the policy and economic changes that turned our projected surpluses into unending deficits:

Image

And you can see it in this graph, from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, which looked at the contributions recent policy changes have made to our coming deficits:

Image


The takeaway? They’re all quite similar. Absent the financial crisis, the wars and the tax cuts, we’d be in pretty good fiscal shape right now. Which suggests that it’s probably not a great idea to be defunding our financial regulators and refusing to consider a return to Clinton-era tax rates.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:45 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:

You think that every 1% off the GST 'costs' the government $12 billion - as if the government is paying out that money.

They're not. They're just not collecting it.


Actually that is quite wrong. The government is paying out that money since they are providing the services that that money was supposed to be paying for.

It is no different then not paying your electric bill. They have already given you the electricity so who cares if they don't get money out of you.

BartSimpson wrote:
Also, it's not their money. It's yours.


Just like its nit the stores money, its mine so why should I have to pay for groceries?

BartSimpson wrote:
I see it as every 1% off the GST is money that Canadians will have in their pockets to buy groceries, to save, to spend on their kids, and etc.


I see the government shutting down little things like providing police & fire services. Schools closing and roads going un-repaired. Hospitals forced to close because of lack of funds.

You once said Canada should field a force of 1000 MBT just to use a specific point. Where will the government get the money for these?

BartSimpson wrote:
You think that the people have to justify keeping their money and I say the government has to justify taking it.


They do. They provide all the above mentioned and more.

Why is it that conservatives simply cannot understand the connection between taxes and government provided services? :?


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:26 am
 


DerbyX wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:

You think that every 1% off the GST 'costs' the government $12 billion - as if the government is paying out that money.

They're not. They're just not collecting it.


Actually that is quite wrong. The government is paying out that money since they are providing the services that that money was supposed to be paying for.

It is no different then not paying your electric bill. They have already given you the electricity so who cares if they don't get money out of you.

BartSimpson wrote:
Also, it's not their money. It's yours.


Just like its nit the stores money, its mine so why should I have to pay for groceries?

BartSimpson wrote:
I see it as every 1% off the GST is money that Canadians will have in their pockets to buy groceries, to save, to spend on their kids, and etc.


I see the government shutting down little things like providing police & fire services. Schools closing and roads going un-repaired. Hospitals forced to close because of lack of funds.

You once said Canada should field a force of 1000 MBT just to use a specific point. Where will the government get the money for these?

BartSimpson wrote:
You think that the people have to justify keeping their money and I say the government has to justify taking it.


They do. They provide all the above mentioned and more.

Why is it that conservatives simply cannot understand the connection between taxes and government provided services? :?


You're a servant of the state. So noted.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:26 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:

You're a servant of the state. So noted.


No, you were. I was never in the military. :?


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:30 am
 


DerbyX wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:

You're a servant of the state. So noted.


No, you were. I was never in the military. :?


Nor do you work for govt now, as Bart does, do you?

What's with all the we crap when you're posting about the US?


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:36 am
 


andyt wrote:
DerbyX wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:

You're a servant of the state. So noted.


No, you were. I was never in the military. :?


Nor do you work for govt now, as Bart does, do you?

What's with all the we crap when you're posting about the US?


Where do you see "We"?


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:39 am
 


Quote:
Just like its nit the stores money, its mine so why should I have to pay for groceries?


You own stores' money Derby ? Damn, what are you ?


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:41 am
 


Quote:
They do. They provide all the above mentioned and more.

Why is it that conservatives simply cannot understand the connection between taxes and government provided services?


Because they want LESS public services and want the government to spend LESS. How is that so hard to understand ?


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:42 am
 


Proculation wrote:
Quote:
Just like its nit the stores money, its mine so why should I have to pay for groceries?


You own stores' money Derby ? Damn, what are you ?


You are reading it wrong.

I obtain groceries from the store and should pay for them right? It is my money but the store gets some because they are providing a product/service.

Same thing with taxes. The government provides services and therefore deserves to be paid right?


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:44 am
 


Proculation wrote:
Quote:
They do. They provide all the above mentioned and more.

Why is it that conservatives simply cannot understand the connection between taxes and government provided services?


Because they want LESS public services and want the government to spend LESS. How is that so hard to understand ?


They DON'T.

They are always behind greater spending in terms of police/prisons/military.

In fact most of the conservative talking points are arguably MORE expensive services.

Conservatives have never ever truly been about less government and less spending and in light of the huge government Harper put together I'm surprised you didn't break down laughing as you typed that.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:49 am
 


DerbyX wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:

You're a servant of the state. So noted.


No, you were. I was never in the military. :?


The difference is that you're suborning yourself with your attitude towards government spending and taxation.

I did my job for my country, you're making a serf of yourself to your government.

Shades of difference, indeed, but they are important and significant differences all the same.

And, yes, I'm currently working for a state agency. It's a job. If something better comes along then I'll be on my way.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:53 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
And, yes, I'm currently working for a state agency. It's a job. If something better comes along then I'll be on my way.


And what, the rest of your co-workers are raving ideologues who wouldn't take a better job in the private sector if one "came along." (What ever happened to good old conservative get up and go and finding that better job, or better yet becoming the employer and having others work for you?)

The point is, you're making your living from the very thing you decry - the state spending money. And this service you're providing, is it one you agree the state should provide?


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:57 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:

The difference is that you're suborning yourself with your attitude towards government spending and taxation.


No I'm not. I recognize what taxes go towards. For somebody who complains lefites/socialists think the government should provide everybody a free ride you certainly seem to be suggesting just that.

Taxes pay for schools, hospitals, roads, protection, etc. Paying taxes are no different then paying for groceries.

BartSimpson wrote:
I did my job for my country, you're making a serf of yourself to your government.


You mean your government stole money from the American serfs in order to provide you with food you did not grow, clothes you did not make, a house you did not build, and a lifestyle you did not pay for?

Oh, you provided a service and that service was protecting the country? Where do you think the government got that money to pay you and provide for you?

Taxes. Booyah.

BartSimpson wrote:
Shades of difference, indeed, but they are important and significant differences all the same.


On the contrary, they are exactly that same. You just seem to think that taxes should only go to provide for right wing supported causes and that paying taxes for left wing stuff (schools, hospitals, etc) that makes me a serf of the government.

BartSimpson wrote:
And, yes, I'm currently working for a state agency. It's a job. If something better comes along then I'll be on my way.


Red Herring. I can leave my job if I want to. I can leave the country if I want too.

I'm no serf. I just understand the connection between government services and taxes.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:36 am
 


DerbyX wrote:
Proculation wrote:
Quote:
They do. They provide all the above mentioned and more.

Why is it that conservatives simply cannot understand the connection between taxes and government provided services?


Because they want LESS public services and want the government to spend LESS. How is that so hard to understand ?


They DON'T.

They are always behind greater spending in terms of police/prisons/military.

In fact most of the conservative talking points are arguably MORE expensive services.

Conservatives have never ever truly been about less government and less spending and in light of the huge government Harper put together I'm surprised you didn't break down laughing as you typed that.

I'm not a conservative.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:59 am
 


Quote:
No I'm not. I recognize what taxes go towards. For somebody who complains lefites/socialists think the government should provide everybody a free ride you certainly seem to be suggesting just that.

Taxes pay for schools, hospitals, roads, protection, etc. Paying taxes are no different then paying for groceries.


No, it's not the same. You decide to pay for groceries. You do not decide to pay taxes. It's stolen on your pay check.


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