[DerbyX]

Proculation wrote:

You have the idea of reverting back to a tribal existence by letting government decide what your life shall be. Don't make projection on me.

No, I'm just trying to honesty understand your position.

Proculation wrote:

You want answers ? Yes, I think we should contract most of the public services. I think that hospitals should not be run by government but by companies. Like I think that roads should be built by private companies with contracts from the government like we have now. A planned economy cannot work, that's a fact and it's historically proven. More statism = more corruption.

Well that is better but I disagree vehemently. Capitalism = greater corruption. We have no better rep of capitalism then a used car salesman and yet they have the worst reputation for honesty. Why is that?

I dispute your belief the government runs hospitals. Very few inOntario anyway, are directly controlled by the government. As somebody who has worked in hospitals and now a private company I can easily say the private company I now work in is vastly less efficient and cost effective then a hospital on a fixed budget.

In fact I have marveled at the waste my company has compared and this is a company where any savings = profit.

Look at the failed banks and companies in the US. Hospitals fail. Do you want that here? How many of our banks have failed? Zero. How many hospitals have gone under? Zero.

We get more actual healthcare per healthcare dollar then any possible private system can.

Proculation wrote:

I'm not a libertarian thinking that the state should only provide protection of our individual rights. I'm not far from it though. I want the state to protect people with disabilities and things like that. Everyone deserves to live. But, like New Hampshire says: live free or die.

Free? We have freedom. I want to know if I get sick there is a mechanism in place to help me. When I get old I want something to rely on is luck forbid my life savings are destroyed.

I like driving without a transponder on my car or throwing coins in a booth.

If that is "collectivism" then I accept that.

[Gunnair]

Proculation wrote:

Gunnair wrote:

Proculation wrote:

Quote:

No I'm not. I recognize what taxes go towards. For somebody who complains lefites/socialists think the government should provide everybody a free ride you certainly seem to be suggesting just that.

Taxes pay for schools, hospitals, roads, protection, etc. Paying taxes are no different then paying for groceries.

No, it's not the same. You decide to pay for groceries. You do not decide to pay taxes. It's stolen on your pay check.

Agreed. I wish I could steal back those transfer payments.

Quote:

That's government.

Quote:

Quote:

Verb

steal (third-person singular simple present steals, present participle stealing, simple past stole, past participle stolen)

1. (transitive) To illegally, or without the owner's permission, take possession of something by surreptitiously taking or carrying it away.

Thanks for the definition. Maybe you ought to read it then reconsider whether you think taxes are theft. If you think they are, then my post stands. No one asked my permission for the dumptruck loads of money poured into have not provinces or provinces that rely on the forced charity of others to pay for their expensive tastes.

[Proculation]

DerbyX wrote:

Proculation wrote:

You have the idea of reverting back to a tribal existence by letting government decide what your life shall be. Don't make projection on me.

No, I'm just trying to honesty understand your position.

Proculation wrote:

You want answers ? Yes, I think we should contract most of the public services. I think that hospitals should not be run by government but by companies. Like I think that roads should be built by private companies with contracts from the government like we have now. A planned economy cannot work, that's a fact and it's historically proven. More statism = more corruption.

Well that is better but I disagree vehemently. Capitalism = greater corruption. We have no better rep of capitalism then a used car salesman and yet they have the worst reputation for honesty. Why is that?

Capitalism = freedom. Yes, some people will want to "try" the system and be corrupt to steal money. But may I remind you of the MacLeans cover last year about Quebec, the more statist province of Canada ? "The most corrupt province" with Bonhomme Carnaval with a briefcase full of money. It's sure I see things differently than you because I'm in Quebec and here, statism is the norm. At the moment here in Quebec, mayor, rulers of all sort, even policemen are brought to justice for corruption from a special police team made up to hunt corruption. Montreal is investigated from all its parts. Maybe it's a bias. But, it reflects what history showed us about statism.

Quote:

I dispute your belief the government runs hospitals. Very few inOntario anyway, are directly controlled by the government. As somebody who has worked in hospitals and now a private company I can easily say the private company I now work in is vastly less efficient and cost effective then a hospital on a fixed budget.

In fact I have marveled at the waste my company has compared and this is a company where any savings = profit.

Again, I see it from my Quebeber's eyes. Here, all the hospitals are run by the government.

Quote:

Look at the failed banks and companies in the US. Hospitals fail. Do you want that here? How many of our banks have failed? Zero. How many hospitals have gone under? Zero.

We get more actual healthcare per healthcare dollar then any possible private system can.

That's untrue. We score in the bottom of the OECD for the healthcare/dollars-spent ratio. The best systeme are mixed where the state helps the poor but let the private sector compete and give services. We don't have that here.

Proculation wrote:

I'm not a libertarian thinking that the state should only provide protection of our individual rights. I'm not far from it though. I want the state to protect people with disabilities and things like that. Everyone deserves to live. But, like New Hampshire says: live free or die.

DerbyX wrote:

Free? We have freedom. I want to know if I get sick there is a mechanism in place to help me. When I get old I want something to rely on is luck forbid my life savings are destroyed.

I like driving without a transponder on my car or throwing coins in a booth.

If that is "collectivism" then I accept that.[/quote]

Maybe 'you' have what you think it's freedom. I do not. Freedom means that man should be able to do what he pleased within is rights. We don't have that at all.

[Proculation]

Gunnair wrote:

Thanks for the definition. Maybe you ought to read it then reconsider whether you think taxes are theft. If you think they are, then my post stands. No one asked my permission for the dumptruck loads of money poured into have not provinces or provinces that rely on the forced charity of others to pay for their expensive tastes.

Don't think that I'm proud to have your money from transfer payments because I'm from Quebec. In french, welfare is called "B.S." for "bien-être social". Tranfer payments = BS.

[bootlegga]

Proculation wrote:

I'm for sale taxes but not income taxes.

Brought in by a Conservative running a Conservative-dominated coalition government to pay for a war (with the promise that once war debts were paid off, it would be removed).

Oh the horrors - income taxes AND an evil coalition!

[Proculation]

For the third time: I'm not a conservative or a Conservative.

[andyt]

Why are you for sales taxes? Why should the state steal your money just because you want to make an exchange with another individual? Income taxes make more sense since the state paid a large part of your education you use to earn your living, (well in my case they actually didn't, since I went to school in the US) provided the infrastructure that allows you to earn your living, provides the security, a large part of the milieu in which you work.

[Proculation]

I am for sales taxes because that's the only way we can finance the government to do its job. When you buy something, you "agree" that there is a tax. It's the less evil. Income taxes are the most evil thing. The government takes money on my pay check without my consent.