[llama66]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I like decent regulations for protecting workplace conditions and making sure that people get paid what they earn. But pardon me if I oppose bullshit like nine months of paid leave for new parents and shit like that.

bootlegga bootlegga:

Here's hoping you don't drag Canada into the dustbin of history with you.

Wherever we go I think it's safe to say you're going to get there, too.

Those little fucking babies need to start work asap. You know when a Harp seal gives birth, it stays with it's pup for 12 days, then it fucks off. No more of this molly coddling bullshit. Sorry Timmy, your two weeks old... time to get a job. Did you just shit yourself Timmy? way to be fucking mature.

With regards to the taking us down with you... It's time for us to enact operation "Polite Sever".

[fifeboy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And courtesy of the socialists and Marxists who run our schools child labor is back!

SO.... You are equating my grand daughter having to do community service for her Christian Ethics course with


Interesting!

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

America was much closer to your definition of pure capitalism in the 18th century, when child labour was used

And courtesy of the socialists and Marxists who run our schools child labor is back!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5713000848

$1:

Involuntary volunteering: The impact of mandated service in public schools

Nice try, but that's a far cry from working in a factory or coal mine for 16-18 hours a day.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

workers toiled up to 18 hours/day with few, if any breaks, worker safety was non-existent, and corporations developed such massive monopolies that the government was forced to deal with Rockefeller, Carnegie, etc.

I hope that you never shop at WalMart.

I avoid it like the plague - I far prefer Costco, where they have good products and pay and treat their staff like humans, not animals.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

The fact is socialism and communism (and their offshoot, unions) sprang up as competing theories because pure capitalism caused such misery for so many people.

If that's the America you want, feel free, but nobody else in this world is interested in regressing that much.

I like decent regulations for protecting workplace conditions and making sure that people get paid what they earn. But pardon me if I oppose bullshit like nine months of paid leave for new parents and shit like that.

Yeah, why do something that lowers infant mortality by up to 10% and makes parents and children healthier in numerous ways?

I get that you don't care for vaccinations, but given the myriad other ways it boosts health outcomes - like cancer, why would you object? With the crappy user pay health care system you have down there, you aren't paying for it like in a universal health care system.

$1:

Paid parental leave can reduce infant mortality by as much as 10%, according to a 2011 study of 141 countries with paid leave policies. It also increases the likelihood of infants getting well-baby care visits and vaccinations, with one study finding that children were 25.3% and 22.2% more likely to get their measles and polio vaccines, respectively, when their mother had access to paid maternity leave. Without paid leave, there was no increase in immunizations.

Paid parental leave can also increase the rate and duration of breast-feeding. A 2011 study in California found that women who had paid leave breast-fed twice as long as women who did not take leave. Babies who are breast-fed, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, are less likely to get a variety of infections and are also at lower risk for asthma, obesity and sudden infant death syndrome. There are benefits to mothers, too, as women who breast-feed are less likely to get breast cancer, ovarian cancer, type 2 diabetes and heart disease, according to the CDC.

...

In one study, women who took longer than 12 weeks maternity leave reported fewer depressive symptoms, a reduction in severe depression and improvement in their overall mental health.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/29/health/p ... index.html

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Here's hoping you don't drag Canada into the dustbin of history with you.

Wherever we go I think it's safe to say you're going to get there, too.

As I said, I hope...

[Tricks]

Imagine comparing 40 hours of community service to child labour.

[Tricks]

bootlegga bootlegga:

With the crappy user pay health care system you have down there, you aren't paying for it like in a universal health care system.

That's exactly why. Who cares about the health of the mother and her baby if the people don't pay for it. It's their problem.

The mentality of many citizens of the U.S. is fucking everyone else, help no one ever for any reason at all. Regardless if it results in an elevation in general quality of life of the country.

[Strutz]

I thought I would toss this in to lighten the mood...


TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM
You have two cows.
You sell one and buy a bull.
Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows.
You sell them and retire on the income.

ENRON VENTURE CAPITALISM
You have two cows.
You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows.
The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed company. The annual report says the company owns eight
cows, with an option on one more. The public buys your bull.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows.
You are surprised when the cow drops dead.

A FRENCH CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You go on strike because you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You then create clever cow cartoon images called Cowkimon and market them World-Wide.

A GERMAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You re-engineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves.

BRITISH CORPORATION
You have two cows.
Both are mad.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You don't know where they are.
You break for lunch.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You count them and learn you have five cows.
You count them again and learn you have 42 cows.
You count them again and learn you have 12 cows.
You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka.

A SWISS CORPORATION
You have 5000 cows, none of which belong to you.
You charge others for storing them.

A CHINESE CORPORATION
You have two cows.
You have 300 people milking them.
You claim full employment, high bovine productivity, and arrest the newsman who reported the numbers.

[rickc]

Tricks Tricks:

rickc rickc:

Sometimes the government trying to help a problem actually makes the problem worse, a lot worse. Take the cost of college. The government got into the business of giving guaranteed loans for college. Loans that a real bank would never give. Go to a real bank and tell them that you want to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a degree in women's studies and they will laugh you out of the bank. They know that it is a horrible risk to take. The have to look at the possible return on investment to risk ratio. Alarm bells would be ringing. There would be pop up windows stating that if you proceed with this loan your ass will be fired! Along comes the U.S. government with their endless supply of other people's money. "Oh you need a hundred thousand? Sign on the dotted line!". This endless supply of easy money has caused a title wave of new schools opening, and everyone raising their tuition drastically.

Why do you think this has caused the skyrocket in tuition in the U.S. that hasn't happened (to the same degree anyways) in other countries? Canadian tuition has definitely gone up, but it still doesn't touch most universities in the U.S. What do you think is different?


Several factors. First supply and demand. Many more people apply than get accepted at the prestigious universities. The universities can keep raising their costs to find the new tipping point. Whatever the market will bear. I am talking private schools here. Public schools are pretty affordable for the most part. I see that the average cost for residents at public schools this year is $9,716. My kid graduated in May. I looked up the tuition for where she went and it is now at $6,943. I think it was $6,400 when she started 4 years ago. That is almost 8.5% increase in four years. Not to bad. I would hate to see what a prestigious private school has increased by.

Second easy money. The school says that you need a certain amount of money. The student signs a form and presto that money is in the schools coffers, and the kid is on the hook for life. The federal government wants to prevent pawn shops and payday loan centers from locating outside of U.S. military bases, but allows and actively participates in this fleecing of our youth. They will carry this debt until they pay it off, or they die. Even bankruptcy will not remove this debt in most cases.

Third misplaced pride/loyalty. Some people just have to have the best (or what they perceive to be the best). My kid just has to have the latest Apple phone. Does it do anything that my Motorola phone cannot? I do not think so. I got my phone for free just for signing up. She pays more monthly just for her phone than I do for my phone plan. But hey its an Apple. Everyone is really impressed......NOT! Some people just have to go to a certain school. They can get the same (maybe better) education at a cheaper school close to home, but they just have to pile on the debt going out of state to another school that someone has convinced them that they should go to. Sometimes they have to go out of state, I get it. If you are majoring in oceanography,than a school on the ocean would be a better bet than a school in Kansas. Still most kids take on unnecessary debt because someone put some idea in their head. My kid majored in education. Teachers salaries are dictated by union contracts. They do not care where you got your degree. If starting salary is $41,000, than its $41,000. They have no stipulation for more money just because your sheepskin says Harvard. Why take on crushing debt to make the same money that someone who has no debt?

Irresponsible parents. A parents legal responsibility may end at 18, but your moral one does not. I was dating a woman who had a daughter the same age as mine. My state has a $10,000 scholarship for every high school graduate who has a 3.25 GPA, and goes to a state school. That $10,000 is almost 2 years of the 4 years tuition (when my kid started college). Her kid wanted to go out of state. She lost the $10,000. Her tuition was tripled because she was out of state. Her college only let freshmen stay on campus. She had to live on the economy with deadbeat roommates who do not pay their bills on time. She had to borrow astronomical amounts of money to live and go to school out of state. She majored in something to do with being a social worker. She got a job making $12 an hour. Illegals who speak not one word of English start off making more than that as a maid in our city. She is working one full time job, and two part time jobs just to survive. She still has the same 4 roommates she did in college. She ran up all this debt to get a degree that barely pays better than minimum wage. I remember when it was all going down, I was asking her mom why she didn't talk her into staying at home and going to the same school as my kid. "Its what she wants", she said. She never even tried to talk any sense into her. If someone wants to go into a thankless low paying job like social services (more power to them) than they need to get there as cheaply as they can. She could have had the same degree, the same job at the same pay, and been almost debt free by staying at home. Her mother failed her by not making any effort at all to talk any sense into her. Her mom loves bitching to me about how her kid is not paying her, or her sister the money back that they loaned her. Its kind of hard to pay everyone back when you are hundreds of thousands in debt and only make $12 an hour. A degree in social work is a degree in social work. No need to take on massive debt when your job basically requires a vow of poverty.

Edited to add that somehow I messed up the quotes. I am to lazy to remedy the situation.

[Tricks]

rickc rickc:

Several factors. First supply and demand. Many more people apply than get accepted at the prestigious universities. The universities can keep raising their costs to find the new tipping point. Whatever the market will bear. I am talking private schools here. Public schools are pretty affordable for the most part. I see that the average cost for residents at public schools this year is $9,716. My kid graduated in May. I looked up the tuition for where she went and it is now at $6,943. I think it was $6,400 when she started 4 years ago. That is almost 8.5% increase in four years. Not to bad. I would hate to see what a prestigious private school has increased by.

I don't think it's supply and demand. You guys have 7000 post secondary institutions. We have 270. 25 times as many for 10 times the population. That just doesn't track. It could be private vs public. We have very few for profit schools compared to public ones. What is the break down like in the U.S.? I just looked at my old school, arts degree is going for about 8000. When I went I think it might have been 7000, about a decade ago.

$1:

Second easy money. The school says that you need a certain amount of money. The student signs a form and presto that money is in the schools coffers, and the kid is on the hook for life. The federal government wants to prevent pawn shops and payday loan centers from locating outside of U.S. military bases, but allows and actively participates in this fleecing of our youth. They will carry this debt until they pay it off, or they die. Even bankruptcy will not remove this debt in most cases.

Is there no sort of basis off financial situation? In ontario we have OSAP, if you're a dependant (i.e. child) of someone making 250k a year, you won't get osap. It's expected that your parents will be able to pay for your schooling. If you come from a home that's only making 40k a year, you'll get grants/loans from the government. And it's a scale, the more household income you come from, the less you'll get from OSAP. Nothing like that down there?

$1:

Some people just have to go to a certain school. They can get the same (maybe better) education at a cheaper school close to home, but they just have to pile on the debt going out of state to another school that someone has convinced them that they should go to. Sometimes they have to go out of state, I get it. If you are majoring in oceanography,than a school on the ocean would be a better bet than a school in Kansas. Still most kids take on unnecessary debt because someone put some idea in their head. My kid majored in education. Teachers salaries are dictated by union contracts. They do not care where you got your degree. If starting salary is $41,000, than its $41,000. They have no stipulation for more money just because your sheepskin says Harvard. Why take on crushing debt to make the same money that someone who has no debt?

Yeah, going to harvard to be a teacher is moronic. Going to harvard to be a top shelf lawyer makes sense. There is a place for the high class schools.

I've also always been confused by the out of state thing, what's the reason behind that? In canada we have an international student price, but if I (in ontario) wanted to go to BC for school, my price would be no different. Why restrict people to the state their in?

The parents, yeah they should be making sure the kid understands what they're going into. As should the schools.

[llama66]

rickc rickc:

Tricks Tricks:

rickc rickc:

Sometimes the government trying to help a problem actually makes the problem worse, a lot worse. Take the cost of college. The government got into the business of giving guaranteed loans for college. Loans that a real bank would never give. Go to a real bank and tell them that you want to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a degree in women's studies and they will laugh you out of the bank. They know that it is a horrible risk to take. The have to look at the possible return on investment to risk ratio. Alarm bells would be ringing. There would be pop up windows stating that if you proceed with this loan your ass will be fired! Along comes the U.S. government with their endless supply of other people's money. "Oh you need a hundred thousand? Sign on the dotted line!". This endless supply of easy money has caused a title wave of new schools opening, and everyone raising their tuition drastically.

Why do you think this has caused the skyrocket in tuition in the U.S. that hasn't happened (to the same degree anyways) in other countries? Canadian tuition has definitely gone up, but it still doesn't touch most universities in the U.S. What do you think is different?

Many Nations actually offer free or super affordable post-secondary education. These nations include Germany, France, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Austria, amongst others. Most countries realize they can make more back in taxes rather than student loans.

[martin14]

llama66 llama66:

Many Nations actually offer free or super affordable post-secondary education. These nations include Germany, France, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Austria, amongst others. Most countries realize they can make more back in taxes rather than student loans.

That's a pretty good list of countries drowning in debt.

[Tricks]

martin14 martin14:

llama66 llama66:

Many Nations actually offer free or super affordable post-secondary education. These nations include Germany, France, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Austria, amongst others. Most countries realize they can make more back in taxes rather than student loans.

That's a pretty good list of countries drowning in debt.

What? Every single one of them has a better debt to gdp and debt per capita than the U.S. Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have a sub 50% debt to gdp. Finland is at 61.4. The only one that comes close is france, and even it is 10% less debt to gdp with about 24 grand less per capita. (61769 vs 37943).

So clearly the U.S. model doesn't work either, and works worse than the countries providing free or super affordable post-secondary education.

[llama66]

Total combined debt of Germany, France, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, and Austria = $13,800,000,000,000
(The socialist shithole, Norway is $60,000,000,000 in debt. Drowning!)
Debt of the United States = $21,000,000,000,000

Who's drowning in debt?

[Tricks]

llama66 llama66:

Total combined debt of Germany, France, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, and Austria = $13,800,000,000,000
(The socialist shithole, Norway is $60,000,000,000 in debt. Drowning!)
Debt of the United States = $21,000,000,000,000

Who's drowning in debt?

Where'd you get 13.8 trillion from? I'm getting about 6.25 from their debt clocks.
Germany: 2.5
France: 2.7
Norway .15
Sweden .2
Finland .17
Denmark .13
Austria .4

[Tricks]

Also, technically, Norway has so little debt, that their assets outweigh their debt. They're still in a net positive.

[llama66]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ernal_debt

Either way, the point is the same... Actually your numbers make it worse.