[Scape]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc[/youtube]

Wolf argues that the founders of the USA did not intend that there would be a delegation to professionals of the duty and actions required to protect liberty. She says that the founders of the USA intended that the people themselves, all the ordinary people, had to assume the patriotic fight, had to see themselves as the leaders to restore liberty.

[dog77_1999]

The original founding fathers were all from the elite society. In fact, the bases of the Constitution (Electoral Collage) was to ensure that the mob (Americans) did not run the country. It requires those with power to be humble on using it.

But alas, until the President is both the the President and leader of the House, the similarities won't add up. The Germans chose to give up that power to Hitler.

Before 9/11, there were plenty of laws that theoretically turned the US into a dictatorship. Eminent domain, martial law, arresting those and holding them of conspiracy charges all existed before. You just have to have humble leaders who don't go crazy with these laws.

In fact, it's like that in every country. There must be a sense a trust between government and the people. I personally believe that the US has not reached this stage.

I stopped at 8:00, she needs to get to her point and stop rambling. I hope from your summary and her 8 minutes I got her point.

[Scape]

You see the future and current leadership as humble as John Bolton? What if Hillary is as bad what then or will it even matter at that point? The attributes of American leadership in any administration could be described with many adjectives but humble isn't one that readily comes to mind.

[dog77_1999]

Scape Scape:

You see the future and current leadership as humble as John Bolton? What if Hillary is as bad what then or will it even matter at that point? The attributes of American leadership in any administration could be described with many adjectives but humble isn't one that readily comes to mind.

Consider the amount of power the leadership has. You are in control of the largest military in the world, which is not limited to tiny precision bombs mind you, you have a incredibly strong economy which could very well cripple any other economy if targeted, and you have a large population which you can pool resources from.

You may think Iraq and Afghanistan is all the US is capable of, it's not because we are essentially policeman there. If all we had to do was kill every living thing we see, we could, very well mind you, but we don't. Bush hasn't ordered genocide, I haven't heard of anyone personally who was over there doing anything remotely like that. The American people wouldn't tolerate it anyways.

You also consider this:

Hitler had the SS protecting him.
Stalin had the KGB.
Bush has the Secret Service.

I don't want to ditch the secret service, but even if they were completly loyal to Bush, they just don't have the ability to control the nation like the SS and KGB did. They don't have that kind of power to throw you into secret prisons.

Again, I go back to people using power responsibly. I can say Bush has. However, honestly? that's a different story.

[tritium]

Here is an interest article. Maybe there is some validity to this ladies argument.

$1:

DEFENDING AMERICA
David H. Hackworth
February 6, 1996

HISTORY ALWAYS REPEATS ITSELF

In 1916, America's military was spread so thin it couldn't stop Pancho Villa and his gang of Mexican raiders from sacking our towns and killing our citizens.

In 1939, our armed forces were again in the same sad shape. Had Pancho Villa's son climbed on his old man's horse, he could have conducted similar search-and-destroy operations along our southern borders with equal ease.

U.S. military leaders, both in 1916 and 1939, fought to fulfill their sworn duty: to defend America from its enemies, both foreign and domestic. Gens. John Pershing and George Marshall battled to strengthen our defenses, both predicting our involvement in the two world wars well before those blood baths made the burying business a global boom industry.

But true to form, the American people wanted strong armed forces without paying for the freight. In both world wars, this wrong-headedness resulted in thousands of unnecessary U.S. casualties. Our troops weren't ready for battle, and there weren't enough of them.

As we rock into a turbulent 21st century, the folks back home are again singing their favorite tune: "Give me enough men who are stout- hearted men -- only don't bill me."

In 1996, $263 billion was given to a Pentagon whose primary purpose is no longer war fighting, but banking. The Pentagon has become a big, fat piggy bank, dispensing cash to the armed forces, defense contractors and a rabble of White House and congressional porkers who are busy ripping off defense dollars for pet projects that have nothing to do with defending America.

Now, many American citizens are catching on to this shell game. This awareness and the fact that the nation is broke mean that, beginning with the 1997 budget, defense dollars just won't be there for the looting. And unless someone at the top wakes up and restructures the priorities, by the end of the century the United States of America will be in the very fix it found itself back in 1916 and 1939.

There are serious potential fire fights on the horizon that involve America's national security: China wants Taiwan back and has the military muscle to take it; Iran has an unstable leadership crazy enough to try and close our primary gas station, the Strait of Hormuz; Iraq could retake Kuwait with its rebuilt army of 12 armored divisions before we could say 'George Bush"; North Korea, always a loose cannon, is acting goofier than ever and, just for the hell of it, could go for a final manzai attack; and then there are Pancho Villa's great-grandsons and pals, who could become bored with flooding our cities with drugs and look to start a different kind of war.

Besides foggy thinking at the top by the many airheads in the White House, Congress and the Pentagon, another killer gutting our war fighting capability is our post-Cold-War peacekeeping effort.

The U.S. bleeding hearts have sent our warriors off on missions of salvation to Bosnia, Haiti, the Sinai, Macedonia, northern Iraq and a dozen other local brawls around the globe.

These do-good misadventures have stretched our military machine to the breaking point. Not only do they tie up our deployed fighters, but they wreak havoc on the outfits relieved and the ones training as re- placements. So for each battalion deployed, two additional battalions are getting ready or retraining.

Besides costing megabucks, peace- keeping missions are blunting our military's combat edge and raising hell with the morales of both the warriors who go and their loved ones who stay behind. Spirit wins wars, not volunteer armies whose personnel can't wait to walk.

Now the chairman of the Pentagon bank, Secretary of Defense William Perry, says he's hot to dispatch U.S. troops to the Golan Heights as peace-keepers.

An Army sergeant I talked to in Bosnia -- on his third peace mission in three years -- got it right when he said, *Who's going to be left to defend America when real trouble comes our way?'

Clinton, Perry and Congress must be reminded of what our founding fathers had in mind when they created an army and a navy.

At least the grunts and their NCOs down at the bottom know: it's to defend America, not get sucked into every problem going down in a screwed-up world.

[Scape]

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

Bush has the Secret Service.

The SS is not a private army, Blackwater is.

[damngrumpy]

In my view it is indeed the government who wanted to privatize the military so they wouldn't have to pay benefits and medical expenses of the injured. The also used the national guard instead of full time troops, The reason? Well they don't have to pay the same benefits making it cheaper to take Iraqi oil for Halibertan.
America is in big trouble because they spent their time, respect and good will being a bully on the world stage.
Friends and enemies alike are tired of their boasting and pushy ways and no one is prepared to take it anymore.
America and the American people are getting what they deserved for being stampeded by fear. The Bush administration has left a mess that will take decades to fix, both on the domestic front and internationally

[dog77_1999]

Scape Scape:

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

Bush has the Secret Service.

The SS is not a private army, Blackwater is.

You are right. They are mercenaries, but I don't see them over in America breaking into people's houses. They seem to be fullfilling a role of security for the Iraqi government.

damngrump, the reason why they are using national guard troops is because there isn't enough people available in the military for Iraq. Either they pull out of military bases around the world(which I wouldn't mind, but geeze that may make countries actually spend money on a military), they do what they are doing now, or the draft. Option 2 seemed to be the best choice out of the situation.

[Toro]

Scape Scape:

Wolf argues that the founders of the USA did not intend that there would be a delegation to professionals of the duty and actions required to protect liberty. She says that the founders of the USA intended that the people themselves, all the ordinary people, had to assume the patriotic fight, had to see themselves as the leaders to restore liberty.

That's interesting.

However, "ordinary people" weren't allowed to vote. Only white landed males voted.

Also, I'm sure the Michigan Militia would agree.

[Ex-Expat]

damngrumpy damngrumpy:

In my view it is indeed the government who wanted to privatize the military so they wouldn't have to pay benefits and medical expenses of the injured. The also used the national guard instead of full time troops, The reason? Well they don't have to pay the same benefits making it cheaper to take Iraqi oil for Halibertan.
America is in big trouble because they spent their time, respect and good will being a bully on the world stage.
Friends and enemies alike are tired of their boasting and pushy ways and no one is prepared to take it anymore.
America and the American people are getting what they deserved for being stampeded by fear. The Bush administration has left a mess that will take decades to fix, both on the domestic front and internationally

I just moved back from the States, and can tell you there's plenty more going on there than we even get to hear about up here. I sincerely wish I could say that you've got it all wrong. But from my vantage point, you've nailed it on every point. Sigh.

The only thing I would add is that, even though you don't hear nearly enough about it in the media (and don't think for one minute that the U.S. govt doesn't have everything to do with that fact), many Americans are quite aware of all this and are pissed as hell about it. I only hope this sentiment is reflected in the polls next election. It certainly was in 2006, when Americans gave many Republican congress(wo)men their pink slips, handing the House to Democrats. Unfortunately, it was not enough of a majority to push through all the changes people want, or do things like overcome Bush's vetoes. A shame.

[Scape]

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

You are right. They are mercenaries, but I don't see them over in America breaking into people's houses. They seem to be fullfilling a role of security for the Iraqi government.

And the US one as well

So what was that about kicking down doors? Any emergency can now be used now by government to grant sweeping power to the executive and overnight mass detention centres can and will be created and maintained by armies such as Blackwater. It is not nearly large enough for the job but it doesn't have to be. All it needs to hold the reigns of power is the fear to in the people of imprisonment. As long as it can control 10% the fear will keep the other 90% at bay.

[dog77_1999]

Scape Scape:

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

You are right. They are mercenaries, but I don't see them over in America breaking into people's houses. They seem to be fullfilling a role of security for the Iraqi government.

And the US one as well

So what was that about kicking down doors? Any emergency can now be used now by government to grant sweeping power to the executive and overnight mass detention centres can and will be created and maintained by armies such as Blackwater. It is not nearly large enough for the job but it doesn't have to be. All it needs to hold the reigns of power is the fear to in the people of imprisonment. As long as it can control 10% the fear will keep the other 90% at bay.

That article said they would be supplying support, not the ones doing it. I don't see how this is any different than the private investigators that have existed or even any supply company.

And besides, this contract was meant for overseas and not a nationwide go into people's houses campaign.

[Scape]

Armytimes

$1:

The vendors will compete for a series of task orders covering a wide range of products and services. These could include anti-drug technologies and equipment, special vehicles and aircraft, communications, security training, pilot training, geographic information systems, and in-field support.
According to ARINC, training elements could include instruction for border police, the construction of shooting ranges and the integration of aircraft-mounted drug detection systems.

So you think there are limits? What makes you think it will simply stop there? This is law enforcement they will be directly involved in. They will be the civil authority that kicks down doors. They are also pushing hard to be the choice for boarder patrols. So they will be rounding up the drug dealers and the illegals at the same time and it is all up to personal the judgment of whoever they have in place at the time. It isn't that hard of a stretch to see them also picking up citizens as well in that large drag net and then who do they answer to in a state of emergency, themselves?

I like the airship.

[Daovonnaex]

What's the use in focusing on military and political issues? While both of these are indeed in serious crisis, The End of America will be due to economic reasons, just as was the case with the Soviet Union. Bush likes to talk about the Ownership Society, but due to our reckless fiscal and monetary policy, the more likely outcome is the Sharecropper Society, where we will be foreigners in our own country.