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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:47 pm
 


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Jonathan Kay on U.S. downgrade:

To understand why S&P lowered Washington’s credit rating on Friday, one need only compare two numbers: U.S. federal tax revenue and U.S. federal expenses as a percentage of GDP.

Under Ronald Reagan, the gap was, on average, about 4% (22% expenditure versus 18% revenue). It was the same 4% under George H. W. Bush. Bill Clinton cut the budget deficit in the early 1990s, and even ran a few surpluses — netting out at a shortfall of less than 1% for his eight years in the White House. But then George W. Bush came into office, pushed through deficit-driven tax cuts, and the red ink began to build again. Bush 43’s last year in office produced a 3% shortfall.

This, plus a financial crisis and major recession, is the situation Barack Obama inherited from Bush in 2009. His stimulus-driven spending binge, in conjunction with tax revenues that plummeted to 14% of GDP, produced an average spending-revenue gulf of 9% of GDP (24% versus 15%) over his tenure thus far — more than double what it was during the Reagan-Bush Sr. period. Yet even in the face of this crisis, Congressional leaders refuse either to raise taxes (even on the rich) or to cut short-term spending. Why has the most dynamic nation on earth succumbed to what can only be described as self-destructive paralysis?
Many blame the Tea Party movement. But the Tea Party didn’t materialize out of thin air. It is the product of an America that never really got over the fear and anxiety produced by 9/11, the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and the real estate crash. The rise of China is another factor that figures large: Many Tea Partiers I’ve interviewed believe that America is destined to be the guiding force in world affairs in perpetuity, and they see Asia’s increasing pre-eminence as a sign that something is fundamentally wrong with the cosmos.

In times of crisis, all societies instinctively revert to romantic, backward-looking notions. There is a religious strain in this instinct: It is imagined that current trials result from the population deviating from some ancient revealed text, be it the Bible, the Koran, or the U.S. constitution. This is why at Tea Party events, there is such a strong correlation between religious Christianity and fiscal conservatism: The small-government pastoral frontier society of America’s formative years is idealized as a sort of Eden. (Some conservative Christian activists even blur the line between the Constitution and the Bible by claiming that the latter inspired the former — this being the thesis of a 1981 book, The 5,000 Year Leap, which Glenn Beck, among others, have credited with forming their political philosophy.)

In this telling, the Founding Fathers are transformed into something resembling religious saints, and policy questions are settled by speculating about what view those men would have taken. Following her interviews with Tea Party supporters, Harvard historian Jill Lepore channeled their outlook this way: “That the Constitution speaks to us the way Jesus speaks to us in the Gospels. That it comes alive when we read it today. That it is our form of scripture. And that all the intervening years between the drafting of the U.S. Constitution in 1787 and the present don’t matter. That those years represent a corruption from a state of purity … It’s a particular form of Protestantism and a kind of understanding of the Bible as literal truth that has a really strong hold on America and in American religious culture.”

According to this way of thinking, keeping taxes low isn’t just smart policy: It’s become the central dogma in one can only be described as a quasi-spiritual policy cult.

The problem, of course, is that this libertarian social contract is a complete anachronism in today’s industrialized, high-density consumer society, in which government is expected to regulate trillions of dollars’ worth of trade between strangers, protect more than three hundred million people from crime, ensure universal literacy, prevent epidemics, save endangered species, police the airwaves, prop up failing banks, take care of the poor and old, and maintain a continental network of public roads and airports.

The idea that an 18th-century-style social contract can cure America of its 20th-century ills is attractive in the way that all romantic political ideologies seem attractive in turbulent times. But as several generations of conservative populists can attest, the romance always ends in heartbreak: Once elected, every modern politician, no matter how ostensibly conservative, eventually will have to hang up his tricorner hat, sit down at his desk, and confront the same modern-world realities that greeted his predecessor. Ronald Reagan is the greatest hero in the history of American conservatism. But even he couldn’t find a way to eliminate a single major spending program during his presidency. George W. Bush, denounced by liberals as a heartless “neocon” during his two terms in office, actually added a major spending program — the Medicare drug benefit.

Such hypocrisy is old news among American political pollsters. As far back as 1964, two scholars — Lloyd Free and Hadley Cantril — used Gallup Poll data to cross-index American attitudes toward government programs and respondents’ professed ideological beliefs. What they found was that overlapping majorities of Americans expressed support both for small government in principle, and big-government programs in practice — a paradox Cantril identified in an influential book, Political Beliefs of Americans, as nothing less than “mildly schizoid.”

The same phenomenon manifests itself today among conservatives who make radical claims about the need to scale back the size of government, but also express satisfaction with classic welfare-state programs such as Medicare and Social Security. In late 2010, a poll conducted by the Washington Post, the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard University revealed that a majority of Americans who say they want more-limited government also believe that Medicare and Social Security are “very important.” Likewise, more than half of self-declared Tea Party supporters said the government should maintain or increase its involvement in poverty eradication.

Since the New Deal era, America has been ravaged by a noisy on-and-off culture war, waged, in part, between those who are at peace with the need for bigger government, and those who are not. The “mildly schizoid” quality of American political life means that this culture war is fought not only between two camps of political partisans, but often within Americans’ own dissonance-wracked minds. Which explains why the war is not only shrill, but endless: Since most American conservatives would never actually accept the much smaller government they claim as their goal, their war demands will never be met — even when their legislative armies conquer Washington.

This is the reason we are at the current, surreal moment — in which the most successful economy in the history of human civilization is now more precarious, and less credit-worthy, than those of many nations once deemed “Third World.” What’s worse: There seems to be no clear end to the crisis, aside from outright bankruptcy, because there is no policy solution that can simultaneously satisfy the dictates of both 21st-century economic reality and 18th-century libertarian dreamscape.
National Post
jkay@nationalpost.com

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:05 pm
 


If all you got for 2012 is "It's not Obama's fault, he inherited it from Bush!" then don't expect Obama to get re-elected.

And Economics 101: Raising taxes in a downward trending economy will result in lower revenues.

Each and every time.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:10 pm
 


Economics 102: Cutting spending in a recession only makes it worse, not better.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:42 pm
 


xerxes wrote:
Economics 102: Cutting spending in a recession only makes it worse, not better.


Cutting spending when spending < revenue will impact sectors of the economy, true.

Cutting spending when spending > revenue is just common sense when you've maxxed out the credit cards.

The US has borrowed to the limit.

If we'd gone with the original Reid plan and raised taxes and then raised borrowing to $23 trillion the likelyhood is that the markets would have cut the US to B and effectively cut us off.

As it is, the Chinese Dagong rating agency knocked us to B and that means the Chinese are not loaning us anymore money. Neither is Europe.

We might be planning on spending $2 trillion more but if no one lends it to us then we're not going to be doing that, are we?

So what's left is the austerity budget we should have done in the first place.

Instead, we've got automatic tax increases slated for Dec 31, 2012 and it's pretty clear the economy will be in deep sh*t by then. That means we'll get a one-two-three punch for 2013 when people get their tax bills for 2012 and have less money on hand to pay the previous year's taxes.

Ergo, less revenue at the end of 2013 than at the end of 2012.

Anyone wanting to bet on the market can take me up on it.

US$1,000.00 says the US government will have LESS REVENUE one year *after* taxes go up 12/31/2012 than before.

It'll be the easiest G I've ever made.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:00 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:

As it is, the Chinese Dagong rating agency knocked us to B and that means the Chinese are not loaning us anymore money. Neither is Europe.

We might be planning on spending $2 trillion more but if no one lends it to us then we're not going to be doing that, are we?

Well, I have 12.95$ in my pocket. (5 twonies, two loonies and 0.95$ in silver I'll lend em!)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:01 pm
 


The only limit the US borrowed to is the one arbitrarily set by Congress.

The US has no difficulty in either securing loans or paying them off at this point in time. Yes, the amount of debt is a problem but it's not an overwhelming burden.

Look at England. In the last year or so they passed an austerity budget and their economy contracted by 0.5%. We can also go back to 1937. The US economy was growing out of the depths of the Great Depression and FDR was convinced to cut spending to reign in the deficit/debt. By the next year, economic growth was halved, the year after, the economy had contracted again.

Cutting spending is all well and good when the economy is strong, but to cut during a recession is to effectively kick an economy when it's down.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:02 pm
 


Xerxes, that depends on what the spending is doing. If government were printing piles of money and burning them. Some spending programs have no more to do with the economy than that.

Some, of course, do. If government is, say, paying contractors to extend economically beneficial infrastructure, that could enable faster economic recovery and growth. I'm just saying, be selective.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:03 pm
 


All I have to say is thank God for my precious metal funds and the fact that I paid my properties off about four years ago.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:38 pm
 


Psudo wrote:
Xerxes, that depends on what the spending is doing. If government were printing piles of money and burning them. Some spending programs have no more to do with the economy than that.

Some, of course, do. If government is, say, paying contractors to extend economically beneficial infrastructure, that could enable faster economic recovery and growth. I'm just saying, be selective.


Good points as always,


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:04 pm
 


Psudo wrote:
Xerxes, that depends on what the spending is doing. If government were printing piles of money and burning them. Some spending programs have no more to do with the economy than that.

Some, of course, do. If government is, say, paying contractors to extend economically beneficial infrastructure, that could enable faster economic recovery and growth. I'm just saying, be selective.


My husband works in paving and got a few government contracts that helped us out a lot.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:05 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
And Economics 101: Raising taxes in a downward trending economy will result in lower revenues.

Fortunately we demand people have a few more courses in economics beyond Econ 101 before we let them actually prescribe economic policy. Where you are on the Laffer Curve, and hence whether raising taxes will raise or lower revenues, hasn't much to do with whether the economy is "trending downward" or busting at its seams.

When you're in a down time, there are only 2 things that matter: confidence and employment. You need improve both at any cost. If it means raising taxes to get people working and build confidence in the economy, then it's sound policy. If the rich have to kick in a little extra chump-change to get Americans back to work and restore some confidence, then it's sound policy.
edit for spelling error


Last edited by Lemmy on Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:12 pm
 


My husband runs his own business and if taxes go up he won't be able to hire as many people to do the work because contracts are making less money now. How does raising our taxes and us not being able to hire more people help people get back to work?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:14 pm
 


So in the middle of all this, they sign a deal with Mexico and jeopardize thousands of trucking jobs.
Smooth move, Exlax.
And sit in London whining BC has so much dead bugwood and it's selling cheap, so it "mist" be illegally subsidized. Schizo is appropriate.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:05 am
 


MeganC wrote:
My husband runs his own business and if taxes go up he won't be able to hire as many people to do the work because contracts are making less money now. How does raising our taxes and us not being able to hire more people help people get back to work?


MeganC wrote:

My husband works in paving and got a few government contracts that helped us out a lot.


See the disconnect here? Where did the money for those govt contracts come from? Who else can he pave roads for but the govt - you have lots of private roads in the US. Certainly homeowners aren't going to be repaving their driveways right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:03 am
 


Government spending to contractors supports the economy in a way that neutralizes and reverses the economic cost of taxes. Government spending to contractors is also a minuscule fraction of the budget, and most of that is for military contractors. Defense (outside of R&D) and welfare spending are a bit like buying toilet paper -- some is necessary, but it's still money down the tubes.

The goal is selective spending for economic growth. Infrastructure spending makes the cut, and most of the rest doesn't.


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