[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

And even if it's co-ordinated it still falls under freedom of association...

Nope.

https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and ... nications/

[stratos]

$1:

They do not have a right to have their staff writers simultaneously write speeches for politicians, coordinate talking points with political campaigns, or otherwise directly involve themselves in partisan political activities.

Okay I got to disagree with you there. They have the right to do so as long as neither group they work for see's it as a conflict of interest. For me as an example I can not go work for another security company but I can have and do have other jobs. The news paper has no issue with me doing other jobs and that will includes streaming at some point on Twitch if I wish to.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

stratos stratos:

Kind of a sad day when the President of the USA has to do this. Campuses were once a bastion of free speech even when it was unpopular speech.

He didn't "have to". It's yet another thing to prop up his base.

$1:

But many colleges say they already have strong free speech policies and don’t need an executive order. After Trump’s earlier proposal, the University of California issued a statement calling the order “misguided and unnecessary.”

It’s unclear what type of free speech limitation could trigger a loss of federal research funding. White House officials declined to provide specific cases of free speech suppression.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5082467/trum ... t-funding/

Bullshit.

UC Berkeley in particular has been operating with double standards for conservative groups requiring them to pay higher prices for venues than other groups do and we have colleges that enforce bullshit speech codes that punish students for not obeying these goddamned 'gender identity' codes and etc.

"Freedom of Speech" means I get to say things that the government doesn't like and I don't have to worry about getting punished or sanctioned for it.

The fucking colleges will stop this horseshit with the speech codes or else they'll face ever increasing repercussions and that's how it should be.

From the Article:

$1:

In the Feb. 19 case at Berkeley that Trump previously cited, neither Williams nor the man arrested for the attack was affiliated with the university.

So, how was UC Berkley enforcing a 'speech code'?

[raydan]

I don't know how speech can be free if you have to order it.

[DrCaleb]

raydan raydan:

I don't know how speech can be free if you have to order it.

From the Executive order, it looks like the speech they say is free, is free. Other speech subject to scrutiny.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

raydan raydan:

I don't know how speech can be free if you have to order it.

From the Executive order, it looks like the speech they say is free, is free. Other speech subject to scrutiny.

Here's the Executive Order in question in its entirety. Feel free to point out where it says what you say it says.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... versities/

$1:

Executive Order on Improving Free Inquiry, Transparency, and Accountability at Colleges and Universities

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Purpose. The purpose of this order is to enhance the quality of postsecondary education by making it more affordable, more transparent, and more accountable. Institutions of higher education (institutions) should be accountable both for student outcomes and for student life on campus.

In particular, my Administration seeks to promote free and open debate on college and university campuses. Free inquiry is an essential feature of our Nation’s democracy, and it promotes learning, scientific discovery, and economic prosperity. We must encourage institutions to appropriately account for this bedrock principle in their administration of student life and to avoid creating environments that stifle competing perspectives, thereby potentially impeding beneficial research and undermining learning.

The financial burden of higher education on students and their families is also a national problem that needs immediate attention. Over the past 30 years, college tuition and fees have grown at more than twice the rate of the Consumer Price Index. Rising student loan debt, coupled with low repayment rates, threatens the financial health of both individuals and families as well as of Federal student loan programs. In addition, too many programs of study fail to prepare students for success in today’s job market.

The Federal Government can take meaningful steps to address these problems. Selecting an institution and course of study are important decisions for prospective students and significantly affect long-term earnings. Institutions should be transparent about the average earnings and loan repayment rates of former students who received Federal student aid. Additionally, the Federal Government should make this information readily accessible to the public and to prospective students and their families, in particular.

This order will promote greater access to critical information regarding the prices and outcomes of postsecondary education, thereby furthering the goals of the National Council for the American Worker established by Executive Order 13845 of July 19, 2018 (Establishing the President’s National Council for the American Worker). Increased information disclosure will help ensure that individuals make educational choices suited to their needs, interests, and circumstances. Access to this information will also increase institutional accountability and encourage institutions to take into account likely future earnings when establishing the cost of their educational programs.

Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the Federal Government to:

(a) encourage institutions to foster environments that promote open, intellectually engaging, and diverse debate, including through compliance with the First Amendment for public institutions and compliance with stated institutional policies regarding freedom of speech for private institutions;

(b) help students (including workers seeking additional training) and their families understand, through better data and career counseling, that not all institutions, degrees, or fields of study provide similar returns on their investment, and consider that their educational decisions should account for the opportunity cost of enrolling in a program;

(c) align the incentives of institutions with those of students and taxpayers to ensure that institutions share the financial risk associated with Federal student loan programs;

(d) help borrowers avoid defaulting on their Federal student loans by educating them about risks, repayment obligations, and repayment options; and

(e) supplement efforts by States and institutions by disseminating information to assist students in completing their degrees faster and at lower cost.

Sec. 3. Improving Free Inquiry on Campus. (a) To advance the policy described in subsection 2(a) of this order, the heads of covered agencies shall, in coordination with the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, take appropriate steps, in a manner consistent with applicable law, including the First Amendment, to ensure institutions that receive Federal research or education grants promote free inquiry, including through compliance with all applicable Federal laws, regulations, and policies.

(b) “Covered agencies” for purposes of this section are the Departments of Defense, the Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Health and Human Services, Transportation, Energy, and Education; the Environmental Protection Agency; the National Science Foundation; and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

(c) “Federal research or education grants” for purposes of this section include all funding provided by a covered agency directly to an institution but do not include funding associated with Federal student aid programs that cover tuition, fees, or stipends.

Sec. 4. Improving Transparency and Accountability on Campus. (a) To advance the policy described in subsections 2(b)-(e) of this order, the Secretary of Education (Secretary) shall, to the extent consistent with applicable law:

(i) make available, by January 1, 2020, through the Office of Federal Student Aid, a secure and confidential website and mobile application that informs Federal student loan borrowers of how much they owe, how much their monthly payment will be when they enter repayment, available repayment options, how long each repayment option will take, and how to enroll in the repayment option that best serves their needs;

(ii) expand and update annually the College Scorecard, or any successor, with the following program-level data for each certificate, degree, graduate, and professional program, for former students who received Federal student aid:

(A) estimated median earnings;

(B) median Stafford loan debt;

(C) median Graduate PLUS loan debt (if applicable);

(D) median Parent PLUS loan debt; and

(E) student loan default rate and repayment rate; and

(iii) expand and update annually the College Scorecard, or any successor, with the following institution-level data, providing the aggregate for all certificate, degree, graduate, and professional programs, for former students who received Federal student aid:

(A) student loan default rate and repayment rate;

(B) Graduate PLUS default rate and repayment rate; and

(C) Parent PLUS default rate and repayment rate.

(b) For the purpose of implementing subsection (a)(ii) of this section, the Secretary of the Treasury shall, upon the request of the Secretary, provide in a timely manner appropriate statistical studies and compilations regarding program-level earnings, consistent with section 6108(b) of title 26, United States Code, other applicable laws, and available data regarding programs attended by former students who received Federal student aid.

Sec. 5. Reporting Requirements. (a) By January 1, 2020, the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, shall submit to the President, through the Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy and the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy, a report identifying and analyzing policy options for sharing the risk associated with Federal student loan debt among the Federal Government, institutions, and other entities.
(b) By January 1, 2020, the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury, shall submit to the President, through the Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy and the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy, policy recommendations for reforming the collections process for Federal student loans in default.

(c) Beginning July 1, 2019, the Secretary shall provide an annual update on the Secretary’s progress in implementing the policies set forth in subsections 2(b)-(e) of this order to the National Council for the American Worker at meetings of the Council.

(d) Within 1 year of the date of this order, the Secretary shall compile information about successful State and institutional efforts to promote students’ timely and affordable completion of a postsecondary program of study. Based on that information, the Secretary shall publish a compilation of research results that addresses:

(i) how some States and institutions have better facilitated successful transfer of credits and degree completion by transfer students;

(ii) how States and institutions can increase access to dual enrollment programs; and

(iii) other strategies for increasing student success, especially among students at high risk of not completing a postsecondary program of study.

Sec. 6. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

DONALD J. TRUMP

THE WHITE HOUSE,
March 21, 2019.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

From the Article:

$1:

In the Feb. 19 case at Berkeley that Trump previously cited, neither Williams nor the man arrested for the attack was affiliated with the university.

So, how was UC Berkley enforcing a 'speech code'?

Please don't insult your own intelligence by trying to pretend that UC Berkeley has not been openly and aggressively hostile to conservatives.

They did not sponsor the attack on February 19 but they've absolutely created the environment to encourage that attack over the years as they've repeatedly and purposefully sat on their hands while conservatives have been physically attacked, shouted down, and etc.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

raydan raydan:

I don't know how speech can be free if you have to order it.

From the Executive order, it looks like the speech they say is free, is free. Other speech subject to scrutiny.

Here's the Executive Order in question in its entirety. Feel free to point out where it says what you say it says.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... versities/

You are right, it doesn't do what I wrote. Nor does it go any further to protect free speech on campuses.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... ree-speech

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

From the Article:

$1:

In the Feb. 19 case at Berkeley that Trump previously cited, neither Williams nor the man arrested for the attack was affiliated with the university.

So, how was UC Berkley enforcing a 'speech code'?

Please don't insult your own intelligence by trying to pretend that UC Berkeley has not been openly and aggressively hostile to conservatives.

They did not sponsor the attack on February 19 but they've absolutely created the environment to encourage that attack over the years as they've repeatedly and purposefully sat on their hands while conservatives have been physically attacked, shouted down, and etc.

In what way? If they aren't doing anything to prevent your views from being expressed, how are they stifling it? Is it not 'the 'free speech' of the left that is shouting them down?

[raydan]

Seems like the Left free speech is stronger than the Right free speech.

[stratos]

$1:

In what way? If they aren't doing anything to prevent your views from being expressed, how are they stifling it? Is it not 'the 'free speech' of the left that is shouting them down?

So basically they who yell the loudest get their say those who show a bit of decorum are screwed and their voices are silenced. That's where the term the silent majority comes from. Last presidential election showed this. Not the candidates but their supporters. Many Dems would go and try to disrupt Trump. Attack supporters of other candidates. I recall one video of some Hillary supporters attacking Bernie supporters. Not saying those on the Republican side didn't do stuff just not to the extent of being close to what the Dems were doing. In the end the silent majority (yes I know it was not a majority victory) spoke at the voting booths.

[Sunnyways]

I presume this includes speaking in favour of BDS?

[BartSimpson]

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

I presume this includes speaking in favour of BDS?

I'm fine with that so long as no one gets assaulted, expelled, sanctioned, fired, trespassed, or etc. for defending Israel's right to exist.

[BartSimpson]

raydan raydan:

Seems like the Left free speech is stronger than the Right free speech.

The left's right cross is definitely not as strong as the right's right cross.

[Thanos]

I've been having a set-to today on Twitter with the New Zealanders over their ban of the Jordan Peterson book. They're all for banning their way to Utopia even though, in reality, if the mosque shooter had read 12 Rules he would have been de-radicalized because the main message of the book is for men to grow up and take responsibility for themselves instead of being led by the nose by crazy assholes on the internet. For this I've been proudly banned by at least two Kiwis, who I can charitably describe as being a pack of cowardly dhimmis.

Freedom simply is or simply isn't. There's no grey area at all between the two states of being.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

I presume this includes speaking in favour of BDS?

I'm fine with that so long as no one gets assaulted, expelled, sanctioned, fired, trespassed, or etc. for defending Israel's right to exist.

And American businesses shouldn't be disqualified from government contracts if they don't take a loyalty oath to Israel/Likud either.