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Seperation......It's Not Just For Quebecers Anymore
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Author:  Elvis [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am ]
Post subject: 

I think Canadian have a misconception about the concept of equality. It's like man and women they are different but equal. A Province could choose to have less controle and be more dependent on the federal goverment if the people in that province misstrust there provincial politics. And another could have great autonomy because there people want to.

To say that all the province should be treated the same will lead to disaster because the need and the aspiration of the people are different from province to province.

A+

Author:  maple_leaf1 [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:26 am ]
Post subject: 

Elvis Elvis:
I think Canadian have a misconception about the concept of equality. It's like man and women they are different but equal. A Province could choose to have less controle and be more dependent on the federal goverment if the people in that province misstrust there provincial politics. And another could have great autonomy because there people want to.

To say that all the province should be treated the same will lead to disaster because the need and the aspiration of the people are different from province to province.

A+


Wrong, you don't reach equality by giving more powers to one province rather than another.

The fact the people of one province may have less trust in their governement has to do with the government they put in power at that time. What would happen if, in the next election, they trusted the government. And then, the next election after that, they wouldn't anymore...Do you the powers being taken away and given back every time there is a new election? Doesn't make sense.

All provinces need to have more power. All provinces need to be given equal power.

Less power to the Federal. The Federal should only be considered as a supervisor of delegated rights and powers and a manager of shared services; i.e. Miltary, Currency, Tele-Communication, International Affairs, Criminal Justice ( I may be forgetting a few).

The rest should be of Provincial jurisdiction.

Author:  Knoss [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:39 am ]
Post subject: 

The big problem is 60-40 programs tht have to be signed byt he provinces, then a province like Saskatchewan asks for a special deal so that a person in Saskatchewan is waitng for the provicial payment of the program and one in Alberta has it already invested.

Author:  Tman1 [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

maple_leaf1 maple_leaf1:
All provinces need to have more power. All provinces need to be given equal power.

Less power to the Federal.

I would disagree with you here. Why more power to a province? Heck, let's just dissolve the country of Canada since more power is going to the provinces and a central government (which would be severely weakened by more powers going into the provinces) would be more useless than it already is. In my opinion, this would setup a precedence for provinces to separate (Alberta for example) because they have all the power. This country is already held together by cheap glue and a few strands of string, why jeopardize it more by giving people like Ralph Klein more power?

I'm not saying you are wrong, my belief hold more towards a strong centralized government because I think thats what this country needs more than some petty squabbling on who is richer than the other.

Author:  maple_leaf1 [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

Tman1 Tman1:

I'm not saying you are wrong, my belief hold more towards a strong centralized government...


So you don't want a confederation....am I wrong?

Author:  Tman1 [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 

maple_leaf1 maple_leaf1:
Tman1 Tman1:

I'm not saying you are wrong, my belief hold more towards a strong centralized government...


So you don't want a confederation....am I wrong?

What's the difference between a confederation and a strong government?

Author:  BartSimpson [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 

hamiltonguyo hamiltonguyo:
Would Alberta do better on their own? Possibly
Would All of Canada do better if we were just Ontario, Alberta, Saskatchewan? Possibly
Would that be a greedy thing to do?
yes

Besides the fact its greedy albertas land was given to it as a province of canada not as an independant nation so i'm pretty sure the rest of canada would demand some compensation


Here's how it would go down if it did:

Alberta would suck up to (list major power of your choice here) and the rest of Canada would have to pound sand because Canada doesn't have the ability to police its own shores let alone stop (list major power of your choice here) from helping Alberta become independant.

Author:  VicVega [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:11 pm ]
Post subject: 

gfpb said:
$1:
Honestly now, do you believe that Alberta will allow another NEP?





No I don't. I think that would act as the ultimate catalysist for Alberta seperation. Unfortunatley the equality of this country is a false thing. A strong central government will do more to push provinces such as Quebec and Alberta away. Having a new PM from Calgary may be enough to quash the seperatist movement in this province for now but we all know that the Tories won't be in power for ever, and then the alienation of the west will probably resume in full force by an Ontario or Qubecer PM unless Harper puts in strong and lasting proposals towards inclusion of the west, such as parliamentary reform, or an elected senate. Also the Quebec voting results are indicative of a decline in the seperatist movement, with the Bloc down in both seats and popular vote Harper also now has a chance to make ovatures to Quebec to begin to appease them aswell. Things such as either a depuaty PM or finance minster from the province would go a long way to proving that he takes Quebec and Quebecer's issues seriously and will not be a tyrant who does not understand the east.

The time is now to act to begin nipping the seperation movement in the bud, either thru small gestures of faith or constiutional reform.

Author:  ThePolitician [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:14 pm ]
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Gonna have to agree with you there Vic, this is the best opportunity Canada has had in a long time to try and sucessfully eliminate separatist movements.

Author:  NWCanuck [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:09 pm ]
Post subject: 

Anyone who figures this is a good idea needs to take a look around. Alberta has sucked cash out of the east for decades before this, and now people want to run? I'd have to say that's the epitome of greed & stupidity. Accepting the fact that you're part of something bigger than your province is obviously a stretch for some people simply because they're spoilt & whining. Honestly, you guys sound like the 10 year old kid who's mad at mom for making them eat breakfast so they're running away! Federal and International politicians look with scorn on the playing feild that's discussed here. 9 billion a year? SO WHAT? That's like the 10 year old trying to buy the plane ticket to Alaska with 20 bucks! I just can't stop belittling you fools. A separate Alberta would be crushed under the jackboot of Asian/US/Arab HUNDRED OF BILLIONS in capital RESERVES . Christ, it's like you got a bb-gun and you're going after a tank! GROW UP ALREADY!

Anyone who didn't have their head stuffed right in the ground would be furious at the fact that Alberta has the stupidest political system within Canada. Where's the opposition? Where's the accountablility? Who's really running off with the cash? TRY THE COMPANIES WHO EXPORT CRUDE. REFINING IT ANYWHERE IN CANADA WOULD RESULT IN HUGE AMOUNTS OF CASH. See that anywhere on the idioitic plans of these hillbillies? If separation is the best vision you can get from a simple economic boom, you're probably living paycheck to paycheck in a van down by the river with a meth addiction. And you're dating your sister. Get invloved with the feds and get some refineries into Canada. Anywhere. Then take a bath in all the cash.

I can say this a somebody born, raised, and yes educated here. Remember the game we play - 32.5million people vs. the world and we'ver got what everyone wants. Only a moron want the team to be smaller & weaker.

Author:  mtbr [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:45 am ]
Post subject: 

NWCanuck NWCanuck:
Anyone who figures this is a good idea needs to take a look around. Alberta has sucked cash out of the east for decades before this, and now people want to run? I'd have to say that's the epitome of greed & stupidity. Accepting the fact that you're part of something bigger than your province is obviously a stretch for some people simply because they're spoilt & whining. Honestly, you guys sound like the 10 year old kid who's mad at mom for making them eat breakfast so they're running away! Federal and International politicians look with scorn on the playing feild that's discussed here. 9 billion a year? SO WHAT? That's like the 10 year old trying to buy the plane ticket to Alaska with 20 bucks! I just can't stop belittling you fools. A separate Alberta would be crushed under the jackboot of Asian/US/Arab HUNDRED OF BILLIONS in capital RESERVES . Christ, it's like you got a bb-gun and you're going after a tank! GROW UP ALREADY!

Anyone who didn't have their head stuffed right in the ground would be furious at the fact that Alberta has the stupidest political system within Canada. Where's the opposition? Where's the accountablility? Who's really running off with the cash? TRY THE COMPANIES WHO EXPORT CRUDE. REFINING IT ANYWHERE IN CANADA WOULD RESULT IN HUGE AMOUNTS OF CASH. See that anywhere on the idioitic plans of these hillbillies? If separation is the best vision you can get from a simple economic boom, you're probably living paycheck to paycheck in a van down by the river with a meth addiction. And you're dating your sister. Get invloved with the feds and get some refineries into Canada. Anywhere. Then take a bath in all the cash.

I can say this a somebody born, raised, and yes educated here. Remember the game we play - 32.5million people vs. the world and we'ver got what everyone wants. Only a moron want the team to be smaller & weaker.




Sucked cash? ROTFL The Alberta economy has kept this country a float for the last few decades.
Dalton Mguinty does more whining about nothing than any Albertan ever did.

No opposition in Alberta whats that got to do with our political system? Theres no opposition in Alberta because the stupid Liberals can't find a leader or draw up a game plan that makes any frigggen sense. (Gee sounds just like the Fed. Liberals)Last i checked we used the same system as the rest of the country.

Why do the people in Tronta hate conservatives....they watch to much CBC.

Get involved with the feds?. we keep trying too, maybe someday we will get the representation in Ottawa that we deserve. Why does PEI with 500 000 people have as much representation in Ottawa as 3.5 million Albertans? NOW THERE IS A STUPID POLITICAL SYSTEM....called Canada.

Author:  kenmore [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

Seperation isnt for Quebec either.. the best and only option economically and internationally is for a strong united Canada.
Federation means a share of resources and wealth for all provinces.
if any province has just cause to bitch it would be the ones on the east coast who have been screwed over time and again by the Feds and international agreements made by them...

Author:  NWCanuck [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 

Is that the best you can do? I thought I'd ask before berating you...

Ah, why bother...

OK dumnut, since I can't get you a book with big pictures and pop ups I'll do my best to explain using really, really small words. The next time you're out stealing stereos around the trailer park, look in the glove compartment of the car/truck you've broken into. There probably will be something called a "map". Not only will it be labelled a "map" but when you unfold it there might just be a big picture of a place called Alberta. Leave the stereo and the map, go to the store and buy one (now that you know what they look like).

Now look closely, son. There are thousands upon thousands of kilometers of roads, railway, hundreds(?) of towns and villages and even a few cities! Even though you don't understand yet, every single one of those places (especially the older ones) were more than a little subsidized by the Feds...

If you consider yourself a mental giant, then feel free to calculate the cost of laying a kilometer of railway track in modern day dollars then multiply by about 20 000kms (a lot of track has been pulled up since then, don't forget). Next, accept the fact that it costs about $10 000/km to put in an all weather gravel road and multiply it by, say 30 000 km. Then consider the costs of paving and expanding some of the gravel roads to a 2/4 lane highway as about 100,000$/km again (that's pretty cheap, but whatever..). Then add up the costs for surveying 50% of the province, the 95% of the towns and villages (ignore the cities). Employ thousands of people over decades upon decades in places such as Wainwright, Cold Lake, Edmonton, etc (think military and supporting private businesses); thousands more people as beaurocrats and researchers in small towns all over the province to improve crop productivity, etc. so the average joe can improve their lot. Then consider that from Confederation to about 1970 Alberta was in the hole - this is decieving as the rules for calculating what was a fed handout does not appear as a transfer payment. Hundreds of millions in lost revenue for subsidies for companies that went under and some more for the ones that lived to be privatized by an arrogant and studpid politician. Oh, and add in a megaproject that drives a highway from Dawson Creek, BC to Alaska forever opening the region to exploration for the things that make us all so much cash (most of the materials were staged through Alberta and run through to BC). Then, compare it to the total amount of tax revenue that AB has generated - funny, there's quite a hole there....even after you adjust it all for inflation.

Well I could go on but I think that you really don't have the ability to concentrate any longer. If you think about this for awhile and come to understand that most of Alberta would never have been developed at half the rate that it did without trainloads of federal dollars (mainly from the central provinces) you might not sound like such an inbred, ass backwards, uneducated hillbilly. No matter where you stand in Alberta the feds kicked in to develop it, period. That, and even though you've watched a lot of Star Trek there really is no way to go back in time and change it, much less "pay it off".

No opposition in Alberta is a crime. Now again, no pop up books available but try this on for size: if one political party is as bad as the next, who's keeping these guys in check? I swear, just because they use the word "conservative" they can get away with whatever they want! Were you aware that the SocCreds were in power for just as long previously? That stands for "Social Credit" by the way, as in socialist programs, etc. and were voted in by the same batch of people who now claim to be conservatives!

PEI has as reps in the House of Commons not because of their size but because they are part of Canada. As a parallel I would point to the USA that has an entire group of representatives (go ahead, look it up) that are based upon having two reps per state, regardless of population density. Hence the two levels of their government. Ours is just more efficient and rowdy.

If you consider yourself smarter than the last crap I flushed, go back to school and finish grade 12. Bubbles and the rest of the gang will be waiting for you when you're done. Julian might even let you hang with him and Ricky...

Author:  VicVega [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:13 pm ]
Post subject: 

Wow and just when i thought this thread had died.

NW for you to say that Alberta has sucked cash out of the country by, god forbid, developing the province, and to also say that all that rail and road was put down just for us, is absolutely ridiculous.

Whether or not that was the intent of the message, it sure came accross that way. And what also comes across as that you think that we in Alberta fiscally owe the rest of Canada, and youre taking your fair share, and screw us all!!!!! I hate to argue with such fine logic as "Put down the stolen sterio and pick up the map" but man pull your head out of your ass.

The idea that anyone OWES any other province in this confederation is contemptable at best and divisive at it's worst. It is comments like those you have posted, thinking you are being cleaver and trying to get a one up on someone by attacking them personally that are seperating us all. If we were to say that and agree to it then Ontario and Quebec owe huge amounts of money to "Pay it Back" and so does the rest of Canada.

Fact: The Ontario Auto Industry has had, and continues to have huge government subsidies to help it survive.

Fact: PEI didnt pay for that bridge all by itself (Trans-Canada highway remember) check that thing out on the map and ask how much it cost, and what we all got in return financially for it before you rave at anyone.

Fact: The US congresional system/senate system works. Why?? Population representation in one house, equal in the next. It's balanced and everyone has their say, and everyone has equal voting rights to stop a bill.

I will agree that the Alberta oil industry was started off by Crown corperations and taken over by American ones. I am sitting here saying that we should stick together, that Alberta should help Ontario, Quebec help BC, PEI help Manitoba, and so on. We as members of this nation have all hit hard times, from time to time, and sometimes that has been the fault of the Central Govt (Thank you Trudeau and the NEP) but we have allways been there to help eachother out and bail eachother out.

We sit here and focus on the negatives so much and too often, it is time to stand up and say:

"I AM A PROUD CANADIAN. BE I FROM ALBERTA, ONTARIO, OR NOVA SCOTIA. I LOVE MY COUNTRY AND I WILL DIE TO PROTECT HER. I WILL PROTECT THIS LAND FROM ALL ENEMIES, FORIGN OR DOMESTIC AND I WILL STAND UP FOR HER!!!!!"

Author:  mtbr [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:05 am ]
Post subject: 

NWCanuck NWCanuck:
Is that the best you can do? I thought I'd ask before berating you...

Ah, why bother...

OK dumnut, since I can't get you a book with big pictures and pop ups I'll do my best to explain using really, really small words. The next time you're out stealing stereos around the trailer park, look in the glove compartment of the car/truck you've broken into. There probably will be something called a "map". Not only will it be labelled a "map" but when you unfold it there might just be a big picture of a place called Alberta. Leave the stereo and the map, go to the store and buy one (now that you know what they look like).

Now look closely, son. There are thousands upon thousands of kilometers of roads, railway, hundreds(?) of towns and villages and even a few cities! Even though you don't understand yet, every single one of those places (especially the older ones) were more than a little subsidized by the Feds...

If you consider yourself a mental giant, then feel free to calculate the cost of laying a kilometer of railway track in modern day dollars then multiply by about 20 000kms (a lot of track has been pulled up since then, don't forget). Next, accept the fact that it costs about $10 000/km to put in an all weather gravel road and multiply it by, say 30 000 km. Then consider the costs of paving and expanding some of the gravel roads to a 2/4 lane highway as about 100,000$/km again (that's pretty cheap, but whatever..). Then add up the costs for surveying 50% of the province, the 95% of the towns and villages (ignore the cities). Employ thousands of people over decades upon decades in places such as Wainwright, Cold Lake, Edmonton, etc (think military and supporting private businesses); thousands more people as beaurocrats and researchers in small towns all over the province to improve crop productivity, etc. so the average joe can improve their lot. Then consider that from Confederation to about 1970 Alberta was in the hole - this is decieving as the rules for calculating what was a fed handout does not appear as a transfer payment. Hundreds of millions in lost revenue for subsidies for companies that went under and some more for the ones that lived to be privatized by an arrogant and studpid politician. Oh, and add in a megaproject that drives a highway from Dawson Creek, BC to Alaska forever opening the region to exploration for the things that make us all so much cash (most of the materials were staged through Alberta and run through to BC). Then, compare it to the total amount of tax revenue that AB has generated - funny, there's quite a hole there....even after you adjust it all for inflation.

Well I could go on but I think that you really don't have the ability to concentrate any longer. If you think about this for awhile and come to understand that most of Alberta would never have been developed at half the rate that it did without trainloads of federal dollars (mainly from the central provinces) you might not sound like such an inbred, ass backwards, uneducated hillbilly. No matter where you stand in Alberta the feds kicked in to develop it, period. That, and even though you've watched a lot of Star Trek there really is no way to go back in time and change it, much less "pay it off".

No opposition in Alberta is a crime. Now again, no pop up books available but try this on for size: if one political party is as bad as the next, who's keeping these guys in check? I swear, just because they use the word "conservative" they can get away with whatever they want! Were you aware that the SocCreds were in power for just as long previously? That stands for "Social Credit" by the way, as in socialist programs, etc. and were voted in by the same batch of people who now claim to be conservatives!

PEI has as reps in the House of Commons not because of their size but because they are part of Canada. As a parallel I would point to the USA that has an entire group of representatives (go ahead, look it up) that are based upon having two reps per state, regardless of population density. Hence the two levels of their government. Ours is just more efficient and rowdy.

If you consider yourself smarter than the last crap I flushed, go back to school and finish grade 12. Bubbles and the rest of the gang will be waiting for you when you're done. Julian might even let you


hang with him and Ricky...



Stealing stereos in a trailer park...fuck are you funny. I am 40 years old married with one kid and I work part-time why....because I am an Albertan who has worked his ass of for the last 25 years..I have no Mortgage payment no car payments, paid cash for 2 new vehicles, own 2 houses, 10000 dollars worth of mountain bikes...should I continue you broke fucking mental midget.

If it wasn't for all the money sucking from Ottawa I would have been in this situation 5 years earlier.


No opposition in Alberta is a crime.... Gee maybe we should just let the clueless liberals or what the heck the joke called the NDP have a shot just so they won't cry. Same fucking system as the rest of the country dumbass!
Give Alberta the seats it deserves , or do you have a problem with equal representation from all parts of the country.
You live in a fucking blind fantasy... probably from drinking to much hooch out of a rusty barrel after you spend all your welfare cheques on Export A greens.

Is that the trailer park boys your referring to? now I know where your head is!

Go FUCK yourself dumbass.

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