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Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold
http://www.canadaka.net/forums/science-f47/record-arctic-ozone-loss-caused-by-extreme-cold-t97865-30.html
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Author:  BartSimpson [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

desertdude desertdude:
Are we talking about the Ozone layer again ? I did my part in the 90's with those CFC free cans and using fun gas in my A/C. Nothing more I can do.

Note to the Ozone Layer : Stop being so needy and clingy, you already had your 5 mins of fame like the comming of the Ice during the 70's and 80's. Now its G.Warming's turn, so Ozone Layer man the fuck up.


XD R=UP

Author:  PluggyRug [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

A note to the deniers of the earth's natural warming/cooling cycle.

Sheer arrogance.

Author:  sandorski [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

PluggyRug PluggyRug:
A note to the deniers of the earth's natural warming/cooling cycle.



No one denies that, no one. Keep repeating the Strawman though.

Author:  eureka [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

Bad science has, dan, and that is a significant point. Those who dispute AGW rely on the works of a few like Soon, Lindzen, Douglass, Svensmark, De Freitas, Christie and Spencer and a few others. The work of all of these - at least the work that purports to dispute AGW has been thoroughly discredited. Some have been shown to be faking conclusions. In one case, half the editorial staff of the publication (one that reputable scientists would not use, anyway) resigned because the editor insisted on publishing the paper.

Another publication had its editor resign over another of these papers. De Freitas had a bad paper published by a paper edited by his brother - there was more than that to it following that bit of nepotism, but no matter.

The Douglass paper, I think that was the one, has been described as one of the worst science papers ever written.

This is what the denial bloggers and PR men for the fossil fuel industry rely on to fuel disbelief in the public.

Author:  DrCaleb [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
So, I find it interesting that there is also a rise in skin cancers over the last 20 years. Something like 46% in the last 10 years. Like cigarettes, just because death isn't instant doesn't mean it's good for us.


Now you're assigning causality to AGW?

That would be merely amusing were it not for that I am afraid you're serious.

The uptick in skin cancers has more to do with:

1) Improved health care in developing countries and increased reporting of all diseases, not just skin cancer.

2) The vast increase in the use of UV tanning beds.

3) The vast increase in tattoos. The FDA is now concerned about the link between toxic inks and skin cancer. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/ForConsume ... 143401.pdf

4) Skimpier bathing suits than we had twenty years ago. No, I am not kidding.

5) The vast increase in topical tanning creams of questionable (Chinese) origin.

6) An overdependence on sunscreen creams of questionable efficacy. The FDA is currently studying the claims of a number of sunscreens as to whether or not they actually provide the SPF factor they claim to provide. There's simply no substitute for covering up....especially if you live in the Arctic where the ozone layer is thin....which makes me wonder if there's been a corresponding uptick in skin cancers with the Inuit?


You know me better than that Bart. I would never assume coincidence is causality. I said, " I find it interesting". But to answer #6, yes, there is an increase in Cancer rates among the Innu, but its mostly Lung Cancer and TB.

$1:
Statistics on mortality confirm that cancer as
a leading cause of death increased in the NWT
between 1990 and 2002. Cancer now accounts
for 20% of all deaths in the NWT, making it the
second leading cause of death after Injury and
Poisoning (38%).
The most common diagnoses of cancer among
female Inuit in the NWT are breast (22%),
colorectal (22%), trachea, bronchus, and lung
(19%).
The most common forms of cancer among Inuit
men in the territory are trachea, bronchus, and
lung (25%) and stomach (16%).


http://www.itk.ca/sites/default/files/p ... FINAL2.pdf

Not a lot of skin cancer among people who rarely go in the sun bare skinned. ;) But, I'd expect cataracts to be on the rise in the near future. The sun always wins!

Author:  DrCaleb [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

jeff744 jeff744:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
jeff744 jeff744:
I have trouble believe that we are capable of causing multiple degree changes when we are also preventing carbon releases by controlling forest fires and trying to clean up messes that the earth makes.


And yet, every evening the temperature inside major cities is several degrees higher than the outskirts, and those temperature differences can be responsible for major storms downwind of the city.

Pavement is one of the main causes of that and it is a localized event.


Multiply the effect of that heat island by the number of cities worldwide. So, now you can believe that we are capable of causing multiple degree changes in our environment.

Author:  Zipperfish [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

jeff744 jeff744:
eureka eureka:
jeff744 jeff744:
Tell me why this climate change is so different from the previous ones, the earth produces a massive amount of C02, methane and other gases too.


Why it is so different, Jeff, is that it is caused by human activity. Entirely so! The first time in the history of the Planet, and, for all we know, the first time any life form has been able to affect the climate of this or any other world.

The Earth may produce those things. It does not need us adding to the production.

The Earth is far more powerful than humanity likes to believe that it is. While we contribute no matter how much we may try we can not even hold a candle to what the earth can and has done. Yellowstone alone ejected about 1,000 cubic km of material during its last election, iceland ejected 30 million cubic meters of tephra (total 140 million cubic meters of material). I have trouble believe that we are capable of causing multiple degree changes when we are also preventing carbon releases by controlling forest fires and trying to clean up messes that the earth makes.


So it's coincidenc that CO2 is rising at about the ame rate we're pumping it into the atmosphere?

Author:  Zipperfish [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

jeff744 jeff744:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
jeff744 jeff744:
I have trouble believe that we are capable of causing multiple degree changes when we are also preventing carbon releases by controlling forest fires and trying to clean up messes that the earth makes.


And yet, every evening the temperature inside major cities is several degrees higher than the outskirts, and those temperature differences can be responsible for major storms downwind of the city.

Pavement is one of the main causes of that and it is a localized event.


Umm..You realize that you just proved Dr. Caleb's point, right?

Author:  jeff744 [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Umm..You realize that you just proved Dr. Caleb's point, right?

IN localized events, we have yet to pave the entire planet to make a global change.

Author:  jeff744 [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
So it's coincidenc that CO2 is rising at about the ame rate we're pumping it into the atmosphere?

Interesting considering we just had Iceland go off.

Author:  Zipperfish [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

eureka eureka:
Bad science has, dan, and that is a significant point. Those who dispute AGW rely on the works of a few like Soon, Lindzen, Douglass, Svensmark, De Freitas, Christie and Spencer and a few others. The work of all of these - at least the work that purports to dispute AGW has been thoroughly discredited. Some have been shown to be faking conclusions. In one case, half the editorial staff of the publication (one that reputable scientists would not use, anyway) resigned because the editor insisted on publishing the paper.

Another publication had its editor resign over another of these papers. De Freitas had a bad paper published by a paper edited by his brother - there was more than that to it following that bit of nepotism, but no matter.

The Douglass paper, I think that was the one, has been described as one of the worst science papers ever written.

This is what the denial bloggers and PR men for the fossil fuel industry rely on to fuel disbelief in the public.

I don't know al those folks, but Richard Lindzen should not be lumped in with Soon. Lindzen is unarguably a heavyweight in the field, and though I'm a proponent of AGW, when guys of his calibre talk, I listen. Same with Freeman Dyson.

I wouldn't say Lindzen's work has been thoroughly discredited by any means, especialy since he's got like four decades of outstanding research behind him. Also, his position is more nunced than either side gives him credit for.

Author:  BartSimpson [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

jeff744 jeff744:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
So it's coincidenc that CO2 is rising at about the ame rate we're pumping it into the atmosphere?

Interesting considering we just had Iceland go off.


And Hawai'i, too, among others.

Maybe we should force the earth to buy carbon offsets for all of its pollution?

Image

Author:  jeff744 [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
jeff744 jeff744:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
So it's coincidenc that CO2 is rising at about the ame rate we're pumping it into the atmosphere?

Interesting considering we just had Iceland go off.


And Hawai'i, too.

Missed that one.

Author:  Zipperfish [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

jeff744 jeff744:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
So it's coincidenc that CO2 is rising at about the ame rate we're pumping it into the atmosphere?

Interesting considering we just had Iceland go off.


So what do you think is happening to the CO2 that we are putting into the atmophre then. If it isn't going into the atmosphere, then where is it going?

How much CO2 did the Iceland volcano emit? And the one in Hawaii. Let's do a little math right here and see hat w come up with.

Author:  DrCaleb [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Record Arctic ozone loss caused by extreme cold

jeff744 jeff744:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Umm..You realize that you just proved Dr. Caleb's point, right?

IN localized events, we have yet to pave the entire planet to make a global change.


In closed systems, there are no localized events. The effects may be too small or weak to notice at distance, but they are still present.

It's not that pavement that would cause the non-local event. It's all the cars driving on it.

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