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Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,
http://www.canadaka.net/forums/current-events-f59/calgary-malls-use-facial-recognition-to-track-shoppers-age-t121599-30.html
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Author:  DrCaleb [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

martin14 martin14:
^^^^ See kids, big brother really is watching over everything. :lol:


And you guys thought I was paranoid that Big Brother is everywhere. 8O

Author:  BartSimpson [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

PurolatorHelp PurolatorHelp:
$1:
I actually started a PIPA complaint! Not on cops, but on couriers. Purolator, when they hand you the pad to sign for a package, has a little camera that takes your picture. They don't tell you that!

I was signing for a package at my front door and asked 'did you just take my picture?'. The driver said he did. I said 'delete it, immediately'. The driver said he couldn't, and that he could take my picture in a public place. I said that I was standing in my own home, a private residence, not a public place! He had no right to take my picture without permission.

So I filed a complaint. Never heard back.


Hi, we really apologize for this privacy incident. If possible, can you please email us the complaint number (if you still have it) and also the details of the incident such as date, time and the tracking number? We'll look into the situation for you. Our email address is customer.care@purolator.com.

Regards, James//Social Media Coordinator.


Right on! Looks like Purolator has someone paying attention to their reputation on social media! Well done, Purolator!

Also, anyone standing in public view has no expectation of privacy and while they have every right in the world to object to someone taking their picture they have no right whatsoever to expect it or demand it.

Author:  DrCaleb [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

PurolatorHelp PurolatorHelp:
$1:
I actually started a PIPA complaint! Not on cops, but on couriers. Purolator, when they hand you the pad to sign for a package, has a little camera that takes your picture. They don't tell you that!

I was signing for a package at my front door and asked 'did you just take my picture?'. The driver said he did. I said 'delete it, immediately'. The driver said he couldn't, and that he could take my picture in a public place. I said that I was standing in my own home, a private residence, not a public place! He had no right to take my picture without permission.

So I filed a complaint. Never heard back.


Hi, we really apologize for this privacy incident. If possible, can you please email us the complaint number (if you still have it) and also the details of the incident such as date, time and the tracking number? We'll look into the situation for you. Our email address is customer.care@purolator.com.

Regards, James//Social Media Coordinator.


I thank you for your follow up, but that is impossible. I never received any notification back after submitting my complaint. And if I had, now that I've posted this that would link my online identity with my real world one, and I won't do that. I've tried hard to keep the two separate.

But you can do the right thing here, and see that it is a privacy violation to take the picture of someone in their own home without consent, and advise your drivers to stop doing it. Taking the picture of the outside of their home might be enough proof of delivery for your accounting.

Author:  BartSimpson [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

Dr. Caleb, if the courier is outside your home and you voluntarily open your door then it's not a privacy violation.

It's a shitty business practice, for sure, but it's not a privacy violation.

Author:  DrCaleb [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Dr. Caleb, if the courier is outside your home and you voluntarily open your door then it's not a privacy violation.

It's a shitty business practice, for sure, but it's not a privacy violation.


But I am inside my home! The Supreme court has ruled that whatever I do inside my home is my business, and if someone happens to see something offensive through a window, then they shouldn't have been looking in my windows!

The same could be said if I am in my doorway. I am still inside my home, just you can see inside. You couldn't take a picture of me through the window, as the SCoC decision would mean you are violating my privacy. How could a courier at my door take a picture of me inside my home, and not violate my privacy?

Besides, even if they were inside while I sign the pad, they will still take my picture without indicating they are doing so. It was only because I saw the little lens that I figured out there was a camera in the signature pad.

Author:  Tricks [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Dr. Caleb, if the courier is outside your home and you voluntarily open your door then it's not a privacy violation.

It's a shitty business practice, for sure, but it's not a privacy violation.

I'd just point at the camera I've got on my porch and say "That's okay, I got yours too."

Author:  Tricks [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
But I am inside my home! The Supreme court has ruled that whatever I do inside my home is my business, and if someone happens to see something offensive through a window, then they shouldn't have been looking in my windows!

Do you have a link for that? I was under the impression it was the opposite. If you have a window that's visible from a public place, and you decide to jerk it in front of an open/uncovered window, that is the equivalent of jerking it in said public place.

Author:  llama66 [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But I am inside my home! The Supreme court has ruled that whatever I do inside my home is my business,


Within reason. It's not a privacy violation because you consented to allow the driver to enter and to engage in business with you. Its a shit practice.

Author:  DrCaleb [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

Tricks Tricks:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
But I am inside my home! The Supreme court has ruled that whatever I do inside my home is my business, and if someone happens to see something offensive through a window, then they shouldn't have been looking in my windows!

Do you have a link for that? I was under the impression it was the opposite. If you have a window that's visible from a public place, and you decide to jerk it in front of an open/uncovered window, that is the equivalent of jerking it in said public place.


$1:
The accused was observed masturbating near the uncovered window of his illuminated living room by neighbours from the privacy of their darkened bedroom, across contiguous back yards, from a distance of 90 to 150 feet. The police were summoned.


$1:
The facts as found by the trial judge do not support the accused’s conviction. The accused’s act was not committed in a “public place” within the meaning of ss. 150 and 173(1) (a) of the Criminal Code . A “public place” is defined in s. 150 as “any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied”. “Access” means “the right or opportunity to reach or use or visit” and not the ability of those who are neither entitled nor invited to enter a place to see or hear from the outside, through uncovered windows or open doors, what is transpiring within. Interpreting “public place” as contemplating physical as opposed to visual access renders the whole of s. 173(1) more coherent and is consistent with Parliament’s legislative distinction in the Criminal Code between conduct that is criminal because it occurs “in a public place” and conduct that is criminal because it is “exposed to public view” or “open to public view”. [11-14] [42-51]


https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-c ... 1/index.do

and:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/top-cour ... e-1.536565

Author:  Tricks [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

Awesome, thank you.

Author:  BartSimpson [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

Still, standing inside your open door with a courier less than five feet away and standing outside...I don't see any reasonable expectation of privacy when you've voluntarily opened your door in this situation.

In any case, make sure your packages don't require a signature and you won't have to interact with the courier anymore.

Just pre-authorize for drop-off and you're good!

Author:  DrCaleb [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

llama66 llama66:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But I am inside my home! The Supreme court has ruled that whatever I do inside my home is my business,


Within reason. It's not a privacy violation because you consented to allow the driver to enter and to engage in business with you. Its a shit practice.


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Still, standing inside your open door with a courier less than five feet away and standing outside...I don't see any reasonable expectation of privacy when you've voluntarily opened your door in this situation.


Because the Supreme Court criteria was that the guy's living room was "not accessible to the public", even though there is a window. The same goes for my front door, and foyer. You need an invitation, and once invited inside, the space does not suddenly become publicly accessible.

Author:  llama66 [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

No, but you voluntarily reduced your right to privacy by opening the door. Permission to entered would be implied for the purpose of conducting business.

Author:  DrCaleb [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

llama66 llama66:
No, but you voluntarily reduced your right to privacy by opening the door. Permission to entered would be implied for the purpose of conducting business.


No, I didn't reduce my right to privacy. Inviting the delivery guy in out of the cold doesn't give him permission to take my picture. My foyer did not suddenly become a public space.

Author:  BartSimpson [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
My foyer did not suddenly become a public space.


Considering you live in Canada and I live in California then both of us are just one court ruling away from this becoming a reality. :idea:

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