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John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:
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Author:  Mowich [ Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Vbeacher wrote:
You know, I used to have so much sympathy for natives. But every time I see crap like this I want to go punch one in the face. Mind you, I have a lot more contempt for those whimpering, sniveling, progressives who want to spend their lives on their bellies licking the shoes of any native that happens to wander by.

:D

Author:  Mowich [ Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Thanos wrote:
In years past one could normally say this kind of shit-heelery on the part of the local SJW's would happen "only in BC", or Toronto, or one of those other white-guilt ridden place. Sadly, these days, it could happen anywhere in the county now. The Non-Stop Apology Tour, coming soon to every place that any of us live! Yay? :?


Now ain't that the truth, Thanos. By the time I'm ready to kick the bucket, I doubt I will recognize our country.

Author:  Mowich [ Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Freakinoldguy wrote:
Vbeacher wrote:
raydan wrote:
Pretty much every single thing that the white man has built could be seen as a painful reminded of colonialism. [huh]


Well that's a problem since the natives didn't build one damned thing.


The truth is that despite the calls of bigotry from some progressives and scholars whenever this point is brought up it does nothing to change the reality that these people were simply a stone age society before the white man arrived and as such weren't capable or inclined to build permanent structures.

Quote:
Native Americans: Stone Age People

Native Americans, even the great civilizations of Meso-America and the Andes, were stone age people. This is not to denigrate these people and their achievements, it is simply a statement of fact. This made their phenomenal achievements even more remrarkable. The stone age is usually defined as the era of human developent in which stone tools and weapons were used. Many advances could be made during the stone age, including achievements in fields often associated with more technologically advanced eras. The key technological development leasing to more advanced periods is metalurgy. And here the technological advance was the ability to generate high temperatures. The first step ws the Bronze Age nd finally the Iron age. Native american peoples had begun to nake some achievenents in metlurgy, but primarily work in precious metals like gold nd silver, metals with low melting points. They were on the cusp of the Bronze Age, but never made this vital transition. This is astonishing because the agricultural societies of the Old World had all energed from the Stone age by 2000 BC
.
Stress on Achievements
Academicians tend to stress the achievements of Native Americans, especially because its fits the modern ideological docrtines of cultural relativity and resistance to recognizing the achievements of the West. As a result, we find people taking offense atwhen we point out that that Native Americans were stone age people, even the most advanced Native americans had a stone age cilture. Here is a good example, "That's ignorant, and based on information about 50 years out of date. No respectable historians or most other scholars would make the "Stone Age" claim. Especially since the Aztecs, Incans, and Mayans had superior astronomy and mathematics to Europeans. Especially since they were more advances in medicine. Especially since Natives as a whole over both continents were far superior in their agriculture to Europeans. That's why 60% of the world's food supply was hybridized or domesticated by Native cultures. And finally, Natives were superior in their political theory and social organization in mostly being radically democratic at the time Europe was still in the dark ages politically by relying on absolute monarchy. The only two areas Europeans had superior technology in was shipbuilding and weapons." [Carrol] Our respnse was, "Very rude and poorly informed response. I must complement you, however, with how perfectly you have expressed PC thought. Now I suggest you actually read a little. The Native Americans were stone-age people as any scholar or historian would tell you if you bothered to read a little history. rather than spout off PC cultural relativity ideology. Do you even know what the Stone Age was? Wiki tells us, 'The Stone Age is a broad prehistoric period during which stone was widely used to make implements with a sharp edge, a point, or a percussion surface. The period lasted roughly 3.4 million years, and ended between 6000 BCE and 2000 BCE [meaning the Old World] with the advent of metalworking.' More than 3 millennia after the Old World entered the Bronze Age and Iron Age, Native Americans, including the most advanced civilizations, were still using stone tools Native Americans never entered the Bronze Age, although when the Spanish arrived, thy were on the cusp of it. This failure is one of the reasons a handful of Spanish defeated massive Native American armies. Even the advanced Native American people used stone tools. The magnificent Inca and Meso-American structures (many of which I have visited probably before you were born and before it was easy to get many sites) including the monumental buildings were done with stone tools. They also used stone and wood for their military Campinas--with the addition of obsidian tipped weapons. Native Americans had begun to work with metals, but mostly in precious metals for decorative / religious purposes. The accomplishments you mentioned were true, although I would take issue with the claim that agriculture was more advanced than in the Old World. They did develop the potato and corn which are central to modern agriculture. Now I never said that Native Americans were not very impressive people with enormous accomplishments . And I accept the examples you give. But that does not mean that they were not a stone-age people. And with all their accomplishment they had not even invented the wheel--something you fail to mention--did you even know it. Nor do you note along with impressive mathematical achievement, unlike the Europeans they did very little with it except for religious ceremonies and agricultural planning. And by the way for your PC proclivities it is you who has shown shocking disrespect for other people by assuming that Stone Age means primitive people without any real accomplishment. Tsk. Tsk." And I might add, I spent 2 years in the Peace Corps teaching children in Ecuador, most with Native American origins.

Overlooking Weaknesses
And thus the failures of Nativive Amrican civilization such the continued use of crude stone tools, limited metalurgical technology, failure to develop the wheel, lack of a fully developed written language, and absence of any movement toward scientific discipline. This is important, especially when viewed with their mny accomplishments. Academicians, especially ideologicaly oriented authors, commonly overlook or down play these weaknesses.

Important Question
Rather than trying to make the cultural relativity case, the question that should be asked and the really interesting question was why Native Americans were so far behind the Old world (both the West and China). We suspect that the reason so many scholars fail to ask this question is that it leads to answers that do not ideological conform to the desire to undermine the great achievements of the West. And part of this answer is isolation.


http://histclo.com/chron/na/stone/na-stone.html


We've done some pretty horrible things to the natives over the centuries but that doesn't mean we should be changing history to suit a political agenda. It's time to stop portraying their culture as anything more than what it really was. Stone Age because it doesn't benefit anyone and only creates more animosity.


That deserves a R=UP

Author:  Mowich [ Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Thanos wrote:
Going by the behaviour of the entire city of Victoria for far too long, if they're anything like the BC NDP and Green parties, I'm going to assume, and probably be quite safe in doing so, that the council is controlled and dominated by local leftists with a hard-left agenda. Seems to be a common phenomenon in most of lower BC, as well as in too many other cities across the entire country (including Calgary BTW). And I'm not out of line in blaming the population of Victoria either for something like this obliteration of history happening because, once again unfortunately, probably less than 40% of their eligible voters bother to turn out for elections which means the control of the city government is automatically ceded to the hard-left because they ALWAYS turn out in droves to vote. And, again, the same thing keeps happening here in Calgary too, an allegedly conservative town where an activist SJW council is allowed to happily run amuck year after year thanks to the deplorable voter turn out in civic elections.

Used to be all we got stuck with was tax-and-spenders who'd waste money on special interests and do things like pick stupid fights with the police department or provincial governments. Now we're in the realm of hard-core university-trained activists trying to destroy the foundation of the country itself with their dangerous ideological revisionism of our known factual history. Anyone still normal only has themselves to blame for not showing up to vote in order to stop them. And, yes, as cynical and legitimately depressed as I am I still continually vote in civic elections here because I'm so genuinely disgusted on a regular (if not daily) basis by what the Calgary council keeps doing to this city.

Implement mandatory voting NOW, at all levels of elections, with a minimum of a $100 fine (made payable on the city taxes or when it's time for a vehicle registration) for those who don't show up to participate. This is one of the worst things that's killing democracy everywhere, the nitwits who are opting out en masse and effectively handing control to idiots who are wrecking everything everywhere. :evil:


Good read, Thanos.

Author:  herbie [ Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Sick of wimps who think being an asshole is an accomplishment. Just calling it as a normal person sees it.
Took years living in a 1/2 and 1/2 place to see the winos as winos, not as natives. The white winos aren't kicked off the rez with nowhere to hang out. They've got shithole apartments where the lobby smells like piss. And a brother, uncle, in-law that hires 24 of them so 3 will show up and sweep, or haul chains until payday.

Author:  Thanos [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Either way it was just another day just like any other day. Insanity won and normal people & sensible thinking lost. And the blows dealt out by the cream-puff left in the end will contribute as much damage as the ones given out by the insaniac-right. Just the way it is in this era of a society that's getting far too close to terminal velocity in it's decline and fall.

Author:  Jabberwalker [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

PluggyRug wrote:
Well folks methinks it's about time we start tearing down statues of Pierre Elliott Trudeau.

I didn't know that there were any. Where is there a statue of Pierre Elliot Trudeau? Not in Quebec, that's for damned sure.

Author:  bootlegga [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Freakinoldguy wrote:
Zipperfish wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:


The truth is that despite the calls of bigotry from some progressives and scholars whenever this point is brought up it does nothing to change the reality that these people were simply a stone age society before the white man arrived and as such weren't capable or inclined to build permanent structures.


You should visit Peru some day.


I have, a few times times.....and you?

The Aztec's, Inca's and Mayans were an exception to the rule, not the rule. And as stone age civilizations they flourished but disappeared just about as quickly especially when confronted with a civilization that was technologically more advanced. And when that happened they pretty much went right back to being the hunter gatherer society they originally were. Hell our North American Natives didn't ever get off the hunter gather bandwagon and other than some mounds in the Arkansas and the Eastern US never really got out of the stone age.


Sounds like you've never been to the Four Corners in the US southwest - the Puebloans built lots of permanent buildings and had a city of about 50,000 people at the time London was only 30,000 (1200).

The Iroquois also built permanent settlements with long houses and wooden palisades.

Author:  Vbeacher [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

herbie wrote:
Quote:
You know, I used to have so much sympathy for natives. But every time I see crap like this I want to go punch one in the face.

Quote:

Well that's a problem since the natives didn't build one damned thing.

I don't need to say anything when someone proves they're a bigoted asshole without help.


You can't say anything intelligent, you mean, and you certainly can't deny the truth. All you can do is snivel about how rude I am. Boo Hoo! Go cry, you pathetic snowflake.

Author:  Vbeacher [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Zipperfish wrote:
Vbeacher wrote:
raydan wrote:
Pretty much every single thing that the white man has built could be seen as a painful reminded of colonialism. [huh]


Well that's a problem since the natives didn't build one damned thing.


Should visit Peru some day.


Which part of Canada is that, genius?

Author:  Vbeacher [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Public_Domain wrote:
it's nice to see this place is still full of nazis :(


It's sad that you have such a poor educational background and are of such low intelligence that you haven't a clue what Nazis are or were or think or do. To you it's just a handy pejorative term to use on anyone who says anything you don't like but aren't smart enough to argue against.

Author:  Vbeacher [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Public_Domain wrote:
Condemn the natives for not leaving behind some hard rock structures; all we're going to leave behind is a bunch of trash, as if our skyscrapers will endure lmfao


We built a continent wide civilization, ** MOD EDIT **. And the only mistake we made was softening the educational curriculum to the point slack-jawed cretins were able to get through it without being detoured to some farm somewhere they could pick apples instead of procreating while on welfare.

Author:  Vbeacher [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

herbie wrote:
Sick of wimps who think being an asshole is an accomplishment.


Uh, doesn't that make you sick of yourself?

Author:  Vbeacher [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

bootlegga wrote:
The Iroquois also built permanent settlements with long houses and wooden palisades.


The gentle, kindly Iroquois? Those people? Would you like to compare what the Iroquois did to those they warred on as compared to what the evil white European invaders did? Because if we'd used their practices there'd be no notices alive today. Look up the Illini for example. They were a thriving group of tribes until the Iroquois decided they wanted their land.

The natives in Canada were savages by almost any reasonable standards. Hell, even our own ancestors were primitives. The difference is our ancestors had science and a determination to seek knowledge in all things. That's how they found North America in the first place. Natives didn't explore this place and chart and map it. Europeans did. Few natives had any idea what or who existed beyond a small distance from their villages. They had no science, no wheel, no animals to use for transportation or labour saving, and had existed in a largely static society for eons. Had Europeans never showed up here, they would probably be living largely as they were then, and dying at age 30.

Author:  Zipperfish [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John A. Macdonald statue 'painful reminder' of colonialism:

Vbeacher wrote:

Which part of Canada is that, genius?


You didn't specify Canada. Don't get mad at me because you're wrong, racist.

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