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Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
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Author:  Thanos [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
So, Thomas Malthus was on to something. ;)


Wrong in his own time period but could turn out to be horribly accurate sometime in the near future. And not in terms of food depletion or in imagining Dickensian rookeries & slums jam-packed with starving poor. But it could quite well manifest itself in some other horrible way, such as in the destruction through overuse of some other equally critical resource.

Automation is increasing every year and soon computers will begin replacing the skilled professions as much as robots have been getting rid of blue-collar labour over the past half-century. This leads to the question that absolutely no one has an answer for or even wants to seriously talk about - what happens to the surplus population that quite literally has all it's employment possibilities taken away from it?

This is no longer sci-fi and desperately needs to not be regarded as a joke. :|
Author:  DrCaleb [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
Thanos Thanos:
This leads to the question that absolutely no one has an answer for or even wants to seriously talk about - what happens to the surplus population that quite literally has all it's employment possibilities taken away from it?

This is no longer sci-fi and desperately needs to not be regarded as a joke. :|


I've always figured that the same thing will happen to them, as happened to the rising crime rate after Roe Vs. Wade. The next generation simply won't be born. Think about how many of us old people here don't have kids. You, me, the UN passed a resolution that Llama can't, Stratos, Bart . . . so the unemployable generation simply won't become.

Employability isn't inherited.
Author:  stratos [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
You have to make yourself employable. Education in a viable field, experiences in life and former jobs can train you for something else. So many ways one becomes employable yet you have to do it. No one is going to do it for you.
Author:  Thanos [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
We're actually entering a new phase where the technology will be so complex that only computers (especially the upcoming AI revolution) will be able to do the work because it will be beyond the skills of almost all humans, no matter how well educated they are.
Author:  stratos [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
Thanos Thanos:
We're actually entering a new phase where the technology will be so complex that only computers (especially the upcoming AI revolution) will be able to do the work because it will be beyond the skills of almost all humans, no matter how well educated they are.


Electrician or such type would then be in higher demand that now. If I had a child I would encourage, not force, then to look into that type of field.
Author:  llama66 [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
I'm very concerned about Automation. Really, when you think about it, eventually most blue collar jobs could be replaced by robots or automation, all that would be needed is a few tech's at most factories or places of work.

The vast majority of the workforce would be rendered irrelevant with the advent of automation. Think about it,

Factories
Security
Sales
Fast Food
Office workers
Policing
Defence
Stocks and Finance
Taxi's and Transport
Farming and Agriculture
Deliveries and Logistics

Could all be replaced with Robotic workers or automation, and in some of these industries, we're already seeing a partial implementation.

The question becomes, what to do with the 80 or so percent of the population that is now out of work, and unable to find meaningful, gainful employment?

There will be laws passed in the next 100 years that echo China's (in)famous "One Child" policy.
Author:  stratos [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
$1:
The question becomes, what to do with the 80 or so percent of the population that is now out of work, and unable to find meaningful, gainful employment?


Or people will be allotted only so much each month for food and entertainment. Gov provides you housing ect… A true nanny state from cradle to grave
Author:  DrCaleb [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
llama66 llama66:
The question becomes, what to do with the 80 or so percent of the population that is now out of work, and unable to find meaningful, gainful employment?


People asked the same thing when textile manufacturing moved out of the home and into steam operated factories. And when electric power came along. Then when Henry Ford began the assembly line. And when heavy machinery started taking the place of work gangs.

But the fact is, improvements in automation have always moved people out of menial jobs into more 'white colar' occupations, and correspondingly increased economies and quality of life.

We've been slacking on our productivity, so the only way to increase output is to increase automation. Which is why I think an ever increasing output is a stupid way to base an economy.
Author:  llama66 [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
Being handed all this, I say again look at universe 25. It will not end well.
Author:  Thanos [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
It's different now due to the complexity of the tech. Back then you could take a farmer and put him on a Ford assembly line without much difficulty. Give it enough time and the AI scene will be so complicated that asking the average human to become part of that industry, (and that's the actual trainable people and not the dolts) will be like asking a caveman to fix a broken nuclear reactor. This is a sea change coming, probably the largest one in human history, that's going disqualify the vast majority of people from becoming part of the system simply because the machines and computers will be exponentially more intelligent and versatile than any person ever could be.
Author:  DrCaleb [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
Mouse studies often don't correlate to Human because mice operate entirely on instinct, but Humans are able to change and adapt in ways mice can't. I haven't read your article entirely, but I do see at least that in the study.
Author:  DrCaleb [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
Thanos Thanos:
It's different now due to the complexity of the tech. Back then you could take a farmer and put him on a Ford assembly line without much difficulty. Give it enough time and the AI scene will be so complicated that asking the average human to become part of that industry, the trainable ones and not the dolts, will be like asking a caveman to fix a broken nuclear reactor. This is a sea change coming, probably the largest one in human history, that's going disqualify the vast majority of people from becoming part of the system simply because the machines and computers will be exponentially more intelligent and versatile than any person ever could be.


You give AI a lot more credit that it deserves. AI may be able to tell a cat from a dog, but that is all it can do. The AI that can beat people at Go isn't able to cook a cheeseburger. Factory robots aren't able to do anything beyond what they are programmed to do.
Author:  llama66 [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
The sink has begun, people are having less children, many can't find partners, society is becoming more violent... There are some very strong parallels..
Author:  Thanos [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
It's still in the early stages though. Give it fifty years and the AI's will be so radically advanced from the ones today, especially when they start creating each other without any human involvement at all, that it'll be as stark as the difference between a zygote and a full-formed person. This has no upside to it, and I'm not talking about something as button-pushing silly as Skynet. We're looking at not just the replacement of humans by machines in practically all corners of employment, we're actually looking at ending the reason for people to exist at all. There is no utopia to be had here, only something so horrid that it will make Soylent Green or Mega-City One look like a paradise in comparison.

And the machines aren't to blame for it either. What's going to cause the worst effects is that capitalist/greed-driven man is incapable of seeing other people as anything other than tools to be used. Once those tools are no longer needed what is to be done with them? By every other example in human history the only fate of obsolete & surplus tools is to be abandoned altogether and forgotten entirely.
Author:  stratos [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bernie Sanders in climate change 'population control' uproar
$1:
Give it fifty years and the AI's will be so radically advanced from the ones today,


If it can wipe my butt in 50 yrs I'll be a happy 101yr old :lol:
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