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Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
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Author:  Newsbot [ Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
Title: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless barrier' for Indigenous candidates, critics say
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2021-03-31 07:31:42
Canadian
Author:  DrCaleb [ Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Author:  rickc [ Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
I have a problem with the male judge stating that there should be an exception for Indigenous candidates given Canada's history. Laws should be for everyone, no exceptions. He brings up the residential schools. When did he attend? 50 years ago? This guy is an old man. He has had his entire life to learn French if that is what he wanted to do. No one is or was stopping him from learning French. It sounds to me that he is trying to say that Indigenous people were mistreated by Canada (they were), and now Indigenous people should get breaks and exceptions from laws that others have to follow. Who else should get an exception? What about the Acadians? They were mistreated as well. They had their homes destroyed, their relatives forcefully removed from their homelands. Why should they have to be bilingual to sit on the supreme court? What about the relatives of the Irish that came to Canada as indentured servants? Surely they should get an exception. The list could go on and on.

I prefer the way that the female judge is handling the problem. She is stating that there should not be a requirement to be bilingual. I agree. It is a stupid requirement that will keep a lot of good, qualified people from attaining the office. Far better to get rid of a stupid law than to start granting exceptions to it for certain "protected" classes. Exceptions to laws only breed contempt for the law. It goes against the very fabric of "equality under the law" that the supreme court should be fostering. Treat everyone equally, no exceptions.
Author:  DrCaleb [ Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
rickc rickc:
I have a problem with the male judge stating that there should be an exception for Indigenous candidates given Canada's history. Laws should be for everyone, no exceptions.


Even if the law also stated that First Nations had to attend Residential School, and that Residential Schools were unilingual? [huh]

As you stated, the law should be changed to remove the bilingual requirement, but why should this person, or any other, be punished for one thing because they were forced to do something else?
Author:  rickc [ Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
rickc rickc:
I have a problem with the male judge stating that there should be an exception for Indigenous candidates given Canada's history. Laws should be for everyone, no exceptions.


Even if the law also stated that First Nations had to attend Residential School, and that Residential Schools were unilingual? [huh]

As you stated, the law should be changed to remove the bilingual requirement, but why should this person, or any other, be punished for one thing because they were forced to do something else?

I stand by what I said. This man is already bilingual. He may have been forbidden to speak his native language in residential school, but he does know how to speak it. Anyone who is already fluent in two languages is going to have a much easier time learning a third language than any native English speaker living in North America is going to have learning a new language. Native English speakers have the lowest rate of bilingualism on the planet. What little French that English speaking Canadians are required to take in school is not going to make them bilingual, not even close. Most English speaking Canadians could not even order a meal in a French restaurant and successfully get what they really want.

I say that this man could start learning French today and in a years time he would be
a lot closer to being trilingual than any native English speaking Canadian coming out of high school would be to being bilingual. Immigrants coming to Canada that speak English as a second language pick up French a lot quicker than native English speaking Canadians do.

Why is it so important that someone can speak their native tongue in front of the Supreme Court without interpreters, but not all the other courts along the way to the Supreme Court? What small percent of cases actually make it to the Supreme Court? How many years would someone remain incarcerated waiting for their case to get to the Supreme Court? If bilingualism really was that important to the Justice system, than it should be in the lower courts where the vast amount of cases start and end. Start there or don't do it at all.

Laws should be for everyone. NO exceptions.
Author:  raydan [ Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
First of all, it's a requirement... and I'm not going to say if it should or should not be.

Second, he's had 17 years to learn the language... I don't know about you guys, but if I knew that I'd need to learn Mandarin to get the promotion I wanted, I'd learn Mandarin.

And thirdly, it's "functional bilingualism", which is about what Harper was. :lol:
Author:  bootlegga [ Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
I have no problem with them insisting that Supreme Court justices be bilingual IF they allow the second language to be an Indigenous one.

I understand that Indigenous languages are not official languages, but as an act of reconciliation, I think it would be a fair compromise.
Author:  Scape [ Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
Couldn't he just use google translate?
Author:  JaredMilne [ Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
bootlegga bootlegga:
I have no problem with them insisting that Supreme Court justices be bilingual IF they allow the second language to be an Indigenous one.

I understand that Indigenous languages are not official languages, but as an act of reconciliation, I think it would be a fair compromise.


This is a really tough issue, particularly since it collides two things I think are extremely important-bilingualism and official languages.

I agree this could be a pretty good compromise. It puts Indigenous languages on the same level as English and French and applies equally to Indigenous judges whether their official European language is English or French.

However, this wouldn't apply to any other language except the Indigenous and our official European ones. Doesn't matter if it's Chinese, German or Yoruba. It has to be a combination of any two of English, French and a language spoken by an Indigenous nation in Canada. I say any "Indigenous" language because the Metis and Inuit are not First Nations, but they are Indigenous nations and their Michif and Inuktitut languages should still be included.
Author:  bootlegga [ Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
JaredMilne JaredMilne:
bootlegga bootlegga:
I have no problem with them insisting that Supreme Court justices be bilingual IF they allow the second language to be an Indigenous one.

I understand that Indigenous languages are not official languages, but as an act of reconciliation, I think it would be a fair compromise.


This is a really tough issue, particularly since it collides two things I think are extremely important-bilingualism and official languages.

I agree this could be a pretty good compromise. It puts Indigenous languages on the same level as English and French and applies equally to Indigenous judges whether their official European language is English or French.

However, this wouldn't apply to any other language except the Indigenous and our official European ones. Doesn't matter if it's Chinese, German or Yoruba. It has to be a combination of any two of English, French and a language spoken by an Indigenous nation in Canada. I say any "Indigenous" language because the Metis and Inuit are not First Nations, but they are Indigenous nations and their Michif and Inuktitut languages should still be included.


Yes, that was why I made sure to include 'indigenous' and not just second language, because you're correct that other common non-official languages such as Chinese, Arabic, Hindi, etc. would not be included in this exception.
Author:  rickc [ Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
JaredMilne JaredMilne:
bootlegga bootlegga:
I have no problem with them insisting that Supreme Court justices be bilingual IF they allow the second language to be an Indigenous one.

I understand that Indigenous languages are not official languages, but as an act of reconciliation, I think it would be a fair compromise.


This is a really tough issue, particularly since it collides two things I think are extremely important-bilingualism and official languages.

I agree this could be a pretty good compromise. It puts Indigenous languages on the same level as English and French and applies equally to Indigenous judges whether their official European language is English or French.

However, this wouldn't apply to any other language except the Indigenous and our official European ones. Doesn't matter if it's Chinese, German or Yoruba. It has to be a combination of any two of English, French and a language spoken by an Indigenous nation in Canada. I say any "Indigenous" language because the Metis and Inuit are not First Nations, but they are Indigenous nations and their Michif and Inuktitut languages should still be included.

Exactly why are we compromising? The Supreme Court said that it wants citizens of Canada to be able to directly address the Supreme Court in one of Canada's two official languages without having a translator. That sounds pretty black and white to me, I do not agree with it but that is beside the point. I do not get a say in the matter. Canada has two official languages. Anyone wanting to sit on the Supreme Court needs to become fluent in English and French. Along comes some Indigenous judge who does not want to get with the program, and we are supposed to toss out the rulebook for him? Sounds like favoritism to me. Lets say that we have some smart kid born in Canada with parents that came from Asia. The kid is a prodigy that goes to Harvard Law at 16. The kid speaks his parents native language and English. The kid would still have to become fluent in French as well to sit on the Supreme Court. Why does this kid have to be trilingual when the Indigenous judge does not? Why do you think that the laws should not be enforced equally for everyone?
Author:  JaredMilne [ Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bilingualism requirement for SCC justices creates 'needless
rickc rickc:
Exactly why are we compromising? The Supreme Court said that it wants citizens of Canada to be able to directly address the Supreme Court in one of Canada's two official languages without having a translator. That sounds pretty black and white to me, I do not agree with it but that is beside the point. I do not get a say in the matter. Canada has two official languages. Anyone wanting to sit on the Supreme Court needs to become fluent in English and French. Along comes some Indigenous judge who does not want to get with the program, and we are supposed to toss out the rulebook for him? Sounds like favoritism to me. Lets say that we have some smart kid born in Canada with parents that came from Asia. The kid is a prodigy that goes to Harvard Law at 16. The kid speaks his parents native language and English. The kid would still have to become fluent in French as well to sit on the Supreme Court. Why does this kid have to be trilingual when the Indigenous judge does not? Why do you think that the laws should not be enforced equally for everyone?


Because that Asian language is not one of the founding ones of Canada. English, French and the Indigenous ones have a legal status and historic role in Canada that other languages do not. This applies equally to other European languages like German and Russian, so it's not a racial thing. It would also apply to Indigenous languages like Quechua, which is spoken in various South American countries but isn't really spoken in Canada.
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