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GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan
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Author:  mtbr [ Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

Looks like GM is packing it's bags and heading south.

Author:  sandorski [ Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

Buying from the Big 3 is supporting the US, not Canada. The only Canadian Auto Industry there is involves mostly Parts Manufacturers and a few very small Electric Car Companies.

Author:  Tricks [ Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

My family has bought nissans for the past 15-20 years with the exception of a Windstar (garbage) and a focus (garbage). They've proven to be reliable, easy on the eyes, and fun to drive. Why would we buy something else?

Author:  poquas [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

herbie herbie:
I'll be the first to call bullshit on that one. They make bigger ones now, will they be a heap of rust flakes in a decade like all the other Japanese trucks?


I doubt that's true anymore. In fact the rust out problems with the imports haven't been a problem for more than a decade. We've got one Toyota and one Nissan truck in the family at the moment and both are used daily for construction jobs. I've never been a big truck fan before, but they're well built and have a lot fewer rattles and creaks than the Ford and GM trucks they had previously. They both have mileage in the 100K range and other than regular maintenance have cost nothing. They get better gas mileage than the American versions and both owners swear they'll never go back.

I reached the same conclusion about the cars years ago. I know I'm paying more for the vehicles I buy, but don't regret it for a minute. While I'd love to take a new challenger out for a spin, I don't think I'd really own one. Other than that, what's being offered by the big three that isn't made better by many of the imports? Hell, I even looked at the new Lincoln but quickly realized a Lexus would give me everything it had, plus would retain it's resale value twice as long.

Author:  stemmer [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

poquas poquas:
stemmer stemmer:
In 39 & 40 the USA was supplying military equipment to the Allies. Now what was Japan, Italy & Germany doing in 39 & 40?


You do know the war is long over, right?

That’s probably the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever seen in this discussion. By your logic, 60 million years ago, man was a furry little rat like animal… and we should still be!

North American manufacturers have no one but themselves to blame for the situation they’re in now. For decades they built shitty gas guzzlers that killed millions. It took the Europeans, and even more the Japanese to kick these guys in the ass and start looking at what they were pumping out of their factories. They still have problems understanding why they typically come in last place in apples to apples, class comparisons.

I own a BMW and my wife drives a Volvo (which is owned by Ford at the moment). What American brand built here is comparable in construction and safety? If I needed a pick-up truck, I might be convinced to buy American, but even then, there are better built import trucks on the market now.

The bottom line is simply that I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay for a piece of crap simply to keep some union screwball overpaid.



Ever reade a review of a BMW by Consumer Reports or Phil Edmondston (Lemon-Aid)... Germain cars are rated at the bottom....!!!! Honest....

Author:  mtbr [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

stemmer stemmer:
poquas poquas:
stemmer stemmer:
In 39 & 40 the USA was supplying military equipment to the Allies. Now what was Japan, Italy & Germany doing in 39 & 40?


You do know the war is long over, right?

That’s probably the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever seen in this discussion. By your logic, 60 million years ago, man was a furry little rat like animal… and we should still be!

North American manufacturers have no one but themselves to blame for the situation they’re in now. For decades they built shitty gas guzzlers that killed millions. It took the Europeans, and even more the Japanese to kick these guys in the ass and start looking at what they were pumping out of their factories. They still have problems understanding why they typically come in last place in apples to apples, class comparisons.

I own a BMW and my wife drives a Volvo (which is owned by Ford at the moment). What American brand built here is comparable in construction and safety? If I needed a pick-up truck, I might be convinced to buy American, but even then, there are better built import trucks on the market now.

The bottom line is simply that I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay for a piece of crap simply to keep some union screwball overpaid.




Ever reade a review of a BMW by Consumer Reports or Phil Edmondston (Lemon-Aid)... Germain cars are rated at the bottom....!!!! Honest....


maybe you should try reading one from this century.

Author:  stemmer [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

I just listened to Phil Edmondston on talk radio (www.news957.com) a few weeks ago... BMW, Mercedes & VW/Audi are at the bottom of his ratings...

Mtbr, maybe you need to put down those Stan Lee comic books you've been reading and stay current with the world...

How's your betrayal of Canada going?

Author:  Mustang1 [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

stemmer stemmer:
poquas poquas:
stemmer stemmer:
In 39 & 40 the USA was supplying military equipment to the Allies. Now what was Japan, Italy & Germany doing in 39 & 40?


You do know the war is long over, right?

That’s probably the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever seen in this discussion. By your logic, 60 million years ago, man was a furry little rat like animal… and we should still be!

North American manufacturers have no one but themselves to blame for the situation they’re in now. For decades they built shitty gas guzzlers that killed millions. It took the Europeans, and even more the Japanese to kick these guys in the ass and start looking at what they were pumping out of their factories. They still have problems understanding why they typically come in last place in apples to apples, class comparisons.

I own a BMW and my wife drives a Volvo (which is owned by Ford at the moment). What American brand built here is comparable in construction and safety? If I needed a pick-up truck, I might be convinced to buy American, but even then, there are better built import trucks on the market now.

The bottom line is simply that I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay for a piece of crap simply to keep some union screwball overpaid.



Ever reade a review of a BMW by Consumer Reports or Phil Edmondston (Lemon-Aid)... Germain cars are rated at the bottom....!!!! Honest....


Ever read JD Powers annual reports (they're an industry standard, not Lemon-Aid)? Porsche was #1 in Quality followed by Infiniti, Lexus, and Mercedes-Benz. Oh...and BMW's Regensburg plant was 3rd in Europe.

Ever read Car and Driver? How many times is a BMW in the Top 10?

BMW makes great, reliable, expertly engineered vehicles that hole their value far better than domestics.

Hey, how's that Japanese T.V., hypocrite?

Author:  Mustang1 [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

stemmer stemmer:
I just listened to Phil Edmondston on talk radio (http://www.news957.com) a few weeks ago... BMW, Mercedes & VW/Audi are at the bottom of his ratings...

Mtbr, maybe you need to put down those Stan Lee comic books you've been reading and stay current with the world...

How's your betrayal of Canada going?


Hey, who cares? Mercedes is near the top of JD Powers - with Porsche at #1. And Audi is better than the industry average, so who gives a crap about what Phil thinks?

Author:  bootlegga [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

stemmer stemmer:
Do REALLY believe Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes will bend over backwards to re-tool for us during a war effort like the North American auto industry did?

AND WHAT IF that war is with the nation who's those"foreign" companies are headquartered...

IF you know your history you will remember some of those tanks, army trucks, planes, etc were manufactured for the US and Canada at a loss as part of FDR's war effort...

I wonder who BMW, Mercedes, Fiat, Toyota, etc where building military equipment for...???

NO - we need the big three.... We don't need Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, etc... We were fine without them.


If you knew your history as well as you claim, you know that Ford factories in Germany made trucks for the Third Reich, while IBM made office equipment that helped in the Final Solution.

Author:  Mustang1 [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

bootlegga bootlegga:
stemmer stemmer:
Do REALLY believe Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes will bend over backwards to re-tool for us during a war effort like the North American auto industry did?

AND WHAT IF that war is with the nation who's those"foreign" companies are headquartered...

IF you know your history you will remember some of those tanks, army trucks, planes, etc were manufactured for the US and Canada at a loss as part of FDR's war effort...

I wonder who BMW, Mercedes, Fiat, Toyota, etc where building military equipment for...???

NO - we need the big three.... We don't need Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, etc... We were fine without them.


If you knew your history as well as you claim, you know that Ford factories in Germany made trucks for the Third Reich, while IBM made office equipment that helped in the Final Solution.


Yeah...I hinted at the Ford angle previously, but apparently our resident historian is all talk and little knowledge. :wink:

Author:  bootlegga [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

If you want a chuckle, go over to the Bye American or Bye-bye America thread, where stemmer is also railing against those damn foreigners (and not doing any better I might add).

Author:  stemmer [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

bootlegga bootlegga:
stemmer stemmer:
Do REALLY believe Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes will bend over backwards to re-tool for us during a war effort like the North American auto industry did?

AND WHAT IF that war is with the nation who's those"foreign" companies are headquartered...

IF you know your history you will remember some of those tanks, army trucks, planes, etc were manufactured for the US and Canada at a loss as part of FDR's war effort...

I wonder who BMW, Mercedes, Fiat, Toyota, etc where building military equipment for...???

NO - we need the big three.... We don't need Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, etc... We were fine without them.


If you knew your history as well as you claim, you know that Ford factories in Germany made trucks for the Third Reich, while IBM made office equipment that helped in the Final Solution.


I'm ignoring it 'cause you are manipulating history to push your agenda against the big three...

Anyone who knows history understands Ford & General Motors lost their day-to-day control over its German plants under Hitler and did not assist the Nazis in any way during World War II...

YES Hitler was an admirer of Henry Ford... But what did he admire? His means of mass production...

Would you expect a plant in Germany under Hitler's watch to make tanks for the Allies? Use commonsense man... I'm not condemning Mitsubishi for making Zeros for the Empreror....BUT based upon your failed I logic I should....

Author:  poquas [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

Back to the 60 year old history lesson again?

I bought my “Germain” car last fall Stemmer, it’s my second. My wife’s Swedish car is a year old.

I’ll put either one against any North American vehicle you choose for quality, comfort, safety, and value.

The big three have one last chance to get their act together or disappear for good.

Author:  Mustang1 [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GM Turns Down Bail Out Loan

bootlegga bootlegga:
If you want a chuckle, go over to the Bye American or Bye-bye America thread, where stemmer is also railing against those damn foreigners (and not doing any better I might add).


Yeah, i saw that. Sad. I'll bet he hasn't bought a new car/truck in years and he smugly chastises everyone for buying "foreign" as he watches his Japanese T.V., his Japanese DVD, shoots his pictures on his Japanese camera and buys his clothes made in sweatshops in Indonesia, India or China. He's got ZERO currency here.

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