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Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP
http://www.canadaka.net/forums/current-events-f59/manitoba-flag-outdated-says-ndp-t72819-105.html
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Author:  maldonsfecht [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

EyeBrock wrote:
Just a good movie on many levels. Pure leadership stuff! The bit that I always get a bit teary on is when the one-armed midshipman was trying to sew up his mates body-bag, and he looks up at a rating and asks him for help. He goes from Officer to kid asking an older guy for help. Just good stuff!


indeed... many moments... I like the character of the tough old bugger with HOLD FAST on his knuckles...

Author:  llama66 [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

yeah, I love Master and Commander too! Its too bad they won't do the series, even though Russell Crowe wants to.

Author:  Streaker [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

Bravo to Manitoba's NDP.

Anything with the Union Jack in it should ditched. We've grown beyond that.

Author:  Tman1 [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

EyeBrock wrote:
As the Duke of Normandy he might have had some requirements of loyalty to Phillip, but that didn't stop him from attacking other French domains as did William II and ignoring French Kings, and England was not a vassal state to France. William II son Henry paid no such homage from the Norman possessions in France to the weak French kings and scared the shite out of most of France.
The Plantagenet kings of England actively fought lengthy wars in France to take further chunks of French soil to become blessed Blighty.

So you agree that as Duke of Normandy, he had 'requirments' (as per usual in the Medieval world of status) of loyalty to the French king. Great. Why dismiss it as 'unfounded nonsense' in the beginning? Interesting.

I never said England was a "vassal state to France". I declared that because of loyalties bound as a Duke, that perhaps the French king might percieve William I's English kingdom as a 'possession' for France which I have not yet recieved a satisfactory counter-argument for. Maybe the French kings believed that England was their posession because of William, maybe not. Which brings us to why England invades France.
Quote:
William II son Henry paid no such homage from the Norman possessions in France to the weak French kings and scared the shite out of most of France.
The Plantagenet kings of England actively fought lengthy wars in France to take further chunks of French soil to become blessed Blighty.

This is irrelevant, so don't try to feed me your notion of history here. I already stated above concerning English kings and their claims to territory on France due to lineage and marriage. You chose to ignore it.
Quote:
I can't recall any further large scale or successful invasions of England by French kings/dukes or others trying to enforce any so-called vassal-dom after William I (1066 and all that). That's why the Channel islands remain the last parts of the old kingdom of France that are still British. I don't see any French possessions in England's sphere of influence.

Then you clearly, as indicated before, don't know anything about Medieval terminology or history. Claiming a territory wasn't just about invading another land, it was because of marriage alliances and lineage. Why do you think England could claim so much territory in France? Marriage, lineage....you speak so much about England taking so much land in France and can't grasp as to its foundations. Why do you think a Norman Duke claimed the English throne? Why Rolo was granted land in Normandy by the king of France, what a vassal is, its importance to a king. While you dig out your history book on that....
Quote:
To say England was a vassal state of France is not only simplistic, it's wrong.

Again, I never said England was a vassal state and you are twisting things around. Not only is that desparation, its unethical and you haven't proven me wrong on anything of the sort.
Quote:
But hey Tman, you can get things wrong and still be a clever chap, really!

Back at you. You can be ignorant on Medieval history, English or not and still be a clever chap (most of the time) really!.

Author:  DerbyX [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

Some 6 pages of off topic history?

martin14 isn't on here crying at you guys is he?

(/bitterness)

Author:  Tman1 [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

Not my fault. Some on here can't see outside their (British is beautiful and perfect) box.

Author:  Tman1 [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

Streaker wrote:
Bravo to Manitoba's NDP.

Anything with the Union Jack in it should ditched. We've grown beyond that.

What about Quebec and the Fluer de lys?

Author:  DerbyX [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

Tman1 wrote:
Not my fault. Some on here can't see outside their (British is beautiful and perfect) box.


Sorry mate. Nothing to do with you or Eyebrock at all. Just a vent wondering why martin14 isn't crying about this off topic thread when he went out of his way to cry about mine.

Again, apologies to you both.

Author:  RUEZ [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

Tman1 wrote:
Streaker wrote:
Bravo to Manitoba's NDP.

Anything with the Union Jack in it should ditched. We've grown beyond that.

What about Quebec and the Fluer de lys?

Ha ha, you beat me to it.

Author:  Streaker [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

RUEZ wrote:
Tman1 wrote:
Streaker wrote:
Bravo to Manitoba's NDP.

Anything with the Union Jack in it should ditched. We've grown beyond that.

What about Quebec and the Fluer de lys?

Ha ha, you beat me to it.



He didn't beat you to anything: You're too dumb to have thought that one up. :lol:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tman: An interesting point. If Quebec were to lose the Fleur De Lys on its flag that would be fine by me. In fairness, though, it is far less blatantly a symbol of colonialism than the Union Jack, if only because it alone doesn't comprise a foreign flag.

Author:  Tman1 [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

True but the Flue de lys is part of symbolism in France, not the flag itself but the same thing. That would be foreign as well.

Author:  Streaker [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

Tman1 wrote:
True but the Flue de lys is part of symbolism in France, not the flag itself but the same thing. That would be foreign as well.



I agree, but it is much less obvious. One could also argue that it is a symbol which has been co-opted by Quebec to the point where it has become more of a Quebec symbol than a French (from France) one.

No one could say the same thing about the Union Jack.

Author:  Tman1 [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

How? There are regions in France (not sure if they have provinces or states...) that have the fleur de lys symbol, just like the union jack at the corner of a provincial flag. They are both the same thing. My opinion, Manitoba has no business with the Union Jack as the province was created because the government of Canada didn't want to deal with the Metis and other settlers and doesn't have the same history or closeness of Britian that Ontario does.

Author:  RUEZ [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

Streaker wrote:
He didn't beat you to anything: You're too dumb to have thought that one up. :lol:

Eat shit and die coward.

Author:  Streaker [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manitoba flag outdated, says NDP

You've never seen St. Jean-Baptiste Day here in Quebec, Tman: Believe me, Quebecers embrace the Fleur de Lys with vastly greater fervour than the French.

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