CKA Forums :: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy

romanP romanP:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Lets call the Waaaambulance. They have already been told that anyone currently undergoing, or in the process, or having HRT will still be funded. Just, no new cases will be accepted.

Please, there are people with real problems, like feet they can't use, who would love to get surgery but have to pay for it themselves. Suck it up people.

This is a real problem. People with gender dysphoria are often very suicidally depressed because they feel that their body is not what it should be.

People are suicidally depressed because they lose their jobs, or their spouse leaves them or their children die, ......

so what, none of these folks are covered for their depression, why should our $ pay for a sex change because a mentally ill person thinks they were born in the wrong body, see a shrink for crying out loud. It's their brains that're fucked up not their bodies.

Choban Choban:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Now that we've finally breached the subject of de-listing cosmetic surgeries, maybe we can move on to de-listing post-mastectomy breast reconstruction.

Totaly different situation. This is a valid medical reason.

So is a sex change operation. Just because you're uncomfortable with transgenderism doesn't mean it's not a valid psychological disorder.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This is a real problem. People with gender dysphoria are often very suicidally depressed because they feel that their body is not what it should be.

romanP romanP:

Choban Choban:

Totaly different situation. This is a valid medical reason.

So is a sex change operation. Just because you're uncomfortable with transgenderism doesn't mean it's not a valid psychological disorder.

I'm not uncomfortable with trans gendered people, I'm uncomfortable paying for their unnessesary operations. They are mentaly ill not gender confused and should see a shrink for their depression because in your words it is a PHSYCOLOGICAL disorder.

romanP romanP:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This is a real problem. People with gender dysphoria are often very suicidally depressed because they feel that their body is not what it should be.

I didn't say they didn't need the surgery, nor that I didn't empathize with their situation. I said, there are more people out there with larger quality of life issues that were delisted long ago.

Times are tough, they need to wait like the rest of us, or pay out of pocket like the rest of us.

Did you miss how little this costs the taxpayers? This is chump change. It's one part in a thousand of what Ed is grovelling for from the feds, and even less compared to the health budget as a whole.

So they can't afford $20,000 for a sex-change operation... Take out a loan. Can't do that? Save up. That's the way it works in the grown-up world...

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Did you miss how little this costs the taxpayers? This is chump change. It's one part in a thousand of what Ed is grovelling for from the feds, and even less compared to the health budget as a whole.

I guess people are concentrating on this one typically Sun sensational article.

This wasn't the only service delisted. Many others were at the same time, just this was about a controversial group. The 'Transgendered'.

What about anyone who needs a Chiropractor? They are SOL. And there were other, much larger services delisted.

And the average foot surgery is only a couple thousand, but how much in other costs to the system for a person unable to stand up?

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Did you miss how little this costs the taxpayers? This is chump change. It's one part in a thousand of what Ed is grovelling for from the feds, and even less compared to the health budget as a whole.

Even though I think chiropractic verges on quackery, if the alternative is people abusing pain medication or taking time off work, then there may be a benefit to it and perhaps it should still be covered.

I'm not opposing just the de-listing of sex-changes and for the de-listing of other services.

Brenda Brenda:

So they can't afford $20,000 for a sex-change operation... Take out a loan. Can't do that? Save up. That's the way it works in the grown-up world...

Should we say that to women the next time they want to pop out kids at the taxpayer expense.. and give them a year top up to be home with them...
lets not be so judgemental here.. transgendered is a serious issue and is a legitimate reason for funding for change. Its not a joke and its nothing to laugh about. And definitely not a choice or a mental illness. Do you save up for surgery no matter what the cost?

Special interest group? these people cost the system a hell of a lot more for for treatments for depression, attempted and successful suicide. And if they are, as you claim a small group then the cost to help them wouldn't be all that..

Author:	romanP [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
Choban Choban: romanP romanP: DrCaleb DrCaleb: Lets call the Waaaambulance. They have already been told that anyone currently undergoing, or in the process, or having HRT will still be funded. Just, no new cases will be accepted. Please, there are people with real problems, like feet they can't use, who would love to get surgery but have to pay for it themselves. Suck it up people. This is a real problem. People with gender dysphoria are often very suicidally depressed because they feel that their body is not what it should be. People are suicidally depressed because they lose their jobs, or their spouse leaves them or their children die, ...... Can surgery fix any of those things? $1: so what, none of these folks are covered for their depression, why should our $ pay for a sex change because a mentally ill person thinks they were born in the wrong body, see a shrink for crying out loud. It's their brains that're fucked up not their bodies. You can't have this kind of surgery without the proper referrals from a psychiatrist.

Author:	Choban [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
romanP romanP: Choban Choban: hurley_108 hurley_108: Now that we've finally breached the subject of de-listing cosmetic surgeries, maybe we can move on to de-listing post-mastectomy breast reconstruction. Totaly different situation. This is a valid medical reason. So is a sex change operation. Just because you're uncomfortable with transgenderism doesn't mean it's not a valid psychological disorder. I'm not uncomfortable with trans gendered people, I'm uncomfortable paying for their unnessesary operations. They are mentaly ill not gender confused and should see a shrink for their depression because in your words it is a PHSYCOLOGICAL disorder.

Author:	DrCaleb [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
romanP romanP: DrCaleb DrCaleb: Lets call the Waaaambulance. They have already been told that anyone currently undergoing, or in the process, or having HRT will still be funded. Just, no new cases will be accepted. Please, there are people with real problems, like feet they can't use, who would love to get surgery but have to pay for it themselves. Suck it up people. This is a real problem. People with gender dysphoria are often very suicidally depressed because they feel that their body is not what it should be. I didn't say they didn't need the surgery, nor that I didn't empathize with their situation. I said, there are more people out there with larger quality of life issues that were delisted long ago. Times are tough, they need to wait like the rest of us, or pay out of pocket like the rest of us.

Author:	hurley_108 [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
Choban Choban: romanP romanP: Choban Choban: Totaly different situation. This is a valid medical reason. So is a sex change operation. Just because you're uncomfortable with transgenderism doesn't mean it's not a valid psychological disorder. I'm not uncomfortable with trans gendered people, I'm uncomfortable paying for their unnessesary operations. They are mentaly ill not gender confused and should see a shrink for their depression because in your words it is a PHSYCOLOGICAL disorder. They have a real condistion which needs a real treatment. You can't change a person's brain, but you can change their body. Hence the surgery. This is a real, legitimate procedure, and should be covered just as we cover other psychological disorders - it's just that the treatment for this one is surgery and for others it's often pharmaceuticals.

Author:	hurley_108 [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
DrCaleb DrCaleb: romanP romanP: DrCaleb DrCaleb: Lets call the Waaaambulance. They have already been told that anyone currently undergoing, or in the process, or having HRT will still be funded. Just, no new cases will be accepted. Please, there are people with real problems, like feet they can't use, who would love to get surgery but have to pay for it themselves. Suck it up people. This is a real problem. People with gender dysphoria are often very suicidally depressed because they feel that their body is not what it should be. I didn't say they didn't need the surgery, nor that I didn't empathize with their situation. I said, there are more people out there with larger quality of life issues that were delisted long ago. Times are tough, they need to wait like the rest of us, or pay out of pocket like the rest of us. Did you miss how little this costs the taxpayers? This is chump change. It's one part in a thousand of what Ed is grovelling for from the feds, and even less compared to the health budget as a whole.

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Author:	Choban [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
Roman, no one covers depression for other reasons is my point, I'm not denying these people can change whatever they want about their bodies but why should it be covered when many other life saving things aren't. No one covered grief counselling for my family when my brother in law hung himself, we still had to pay for a fucking ambulance to take the body away. No one covered homecare for my uncle when my aunt had to watch him die of cancer You are saying they should cover this crap that affects like 1% of the population and not the 2 cases I just stated, I'm still not convinced that anyone can tell me they should have been born the opposite of what they are (oh boo hoo I'm depressed) My point is many people are depressed and alot of them seak treatment at their OWN COST!

Author:	hurley_108 [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
As to other services which were de-listed, re-list them. When it was announced that midwife-assisted home-birth would be covered, my wife and I had already saved up what we would have needed to pay out of pocket - $3000. We put $800 into an RESP (not much, but it's a start) and bought a new couch to replace the one that was falling apart - $1800. That was in January. Isn't that stimulus? Didn't that help with the economy just a little bit? The government should be expanding the list of covered services right now, not shrinking it.

Author:	DrCaleb [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re:
hurley_108 hurley_108: Did you miss how little this costs the taxpayers? This is chump change. It's one part in a thousand of what Ed is grovelling for from the feds, and even less compared to the health budget as a whole. I guess people are concentrating on this one typically Sun sensational article. This wasn't the only service delisted. Many others were at the same time, just this was about a controversial group. The 'Transgendered'. What about anyone who needs a Chiropractor? They are SOL. And there were other, much larger services delisted. And the average foot surgery is only a couple thousand, but how much in other costs to the system for a person unable to stand up?

Author:	kenmore [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
Brenda Brenda: So they can't afford $20,000 for a sex-change operation... Take out a loan. Can't do that? Save up. That's the way it works in the grown-up world... Should we say that to women the next time they want to pop out kids at the taxpayer expense.. and give them a year top up to be home with them... lets not be so judgemental here.. transgendered is a serious issue and is a legitimate reason for funding for change. Its not a joke and its nothing to laugh about. And definitely not a choice or a mental illness. Do you save up for surgery no matter what the cost?

Author:	kenmore [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
The problem with most of the poster who have written on this post is that you have never been discriminated against or ostracized for your sexuality or difference.. living in the wrong body is a terrible life.. its right up there with other deformities.

Author:	hurley_108 [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
DrCaleb DrCaleb: hurley_108 hurley_108: Did you miss how little this costs the taxpayers? This is chump change. It's one part in a thousand of what Ed is grovelling for from the feds, and even less compared to the health budget as a whole. I guess people are concentrating on this one typically Sun sensational article. This wasn't the only service delisted. Many others were at the same time, just this was about a controversial group. The 'Transgendered'. What about anyone who needs a Chiropractor? They are SOL. And there were other, much larger services delisted. And the average foot surgery is only a couple thousand, but how much in other costs to the system for a person unable to stand up? Even though I think chiropractic verges on quackery, if the alternative is people abusing pain medication or taking time off work, then there may be a benefit to it and perhaps it should still be covered. I'm not opposing just the de-listing of sex-changes and for the de-listing of other services.

Author:	DrCaleb [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
hurley_108 hurley_108: DrCaleb DrCaleb: hurley_108 hurley_108: Did you miss how little this costs the taxpayers? This is chump change. It's one part in a thousand of what Ed is grovelling for from the feds, and even less compared to the health budget as a whole. I guess people are concentrating on this one typically Sun sensational article. This wasn't the only service delisted. Many others were at the same time, just this was about a controversial group. The 'Transgendered'. What about anyone who needs a Chiropractor? They are SOL. And there were other, much larger services delisted. And the average foot surgery is only a couple thousand, but how much in other costs to the system for a person unable to stand up? Even though I think chiropractic verges on quackery, if the alternative is people abusing pain medication or taking time off work, then there may be a benefit to it and perhaps it should still be covered. I'm not opposing just the de-listing of sex-changes and for the de-listing of other services. I quite agree. Delisting is stepping backwards. But this small group is making big noise, and I get tired of all the little 'special interest' groups taking the focus away from the big problems.

Author:	Brenda [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
kenmore kenmore: Brenda Brenda: So they can't afford $20,000 for a sex-change operation... Take out a loan. Can't do that? Save up. That's the way it works in the grown-up world... Should we say that to women the next time they want to pop out kids at the taxpayer expense.. and give them a year top up to be home with them... lets not be so judgemental here.. transgendered is a serious issue and is a legitimate reason for funding for change. Its not a joke and its nothing to laugh about. And definitely not a choice or a mental illness. Do you save up for surgery no matter what the cost? I don't want to "pop out" kids at the tax payers expense. My efforts to NOT "pop out" kids are expensive too... I never stayed home a year at the taxpayers expense, and to be honest, I find it a ridiculous long time. I am used to 16 weeks. If I want my boobs done, does that get paid for? I am really suffering! I take it I have to pay for that eh... I know it is not a laughing matter. But there are other people who are in need of things too, and they have to pay for that themselves too, because their budget was cut.

Author:	kenmore [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
Special interest group? these people cost the system a hell of a lot more for for treatments for depression, attempted and successful suicide. And if they are, as you claim a small group then the cost to help them wouldn't be all that..

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Author:	Brenda [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alberta Sex-change delisting called cheap ploy
kenmore kenmore: Special interest group? these people cost the system a hell of a lot more for for treatments for depression, attempted and successful suicide. And if they are, as you claim a small group then the cost to help them wouldn't be all that.. So you rather fund all the small group of troubled people, and leave the large groups of troubled people with cut budgets? Nice...