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The Scrum - General Rugby Talk!
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Author:  Prestwick [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:31 am ]
Post subject:  Rugby
I was wondering if there were any people out there even remotely interested in Rugby at all?

I'm really excited about Canada, USA and Argentina getting together for a pan american Rugby League. And they do say that even with the fraction of investment that the NFL gets, Canada and the USA could become two of the biggest forces in world rugby in say ten or fifteen years.
Author:  oli [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, I coach rugby, it's been 5 years now. Canada's currently strong on 7s, but I don't see "investment" making a difference in Canada's Rugby programme. It's more of a system they would need like Quebec has built for recruiting. Here we do grass roots programmes and the provincial coaches recruit at the interscholastic level. The real issue is that most kids that are amazing athletes, are also amazing at another sport, which they claim as their main focus, like hockey or soccer. I've trained hundreds of kids between 14 - 19 and only a small handful decided to make rugby their main focus. BC and Ontario are just running off tradition, but with the level of play currently going on in Montreal and Quebec city, and the new recruiting system up top, I think Quebec will be the future of the game in this country. I think this is how we have to look at it, in order to be able to suit up and face greater opposition on the international scene.
Author:  OPP [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:58 am ]
Post subject: 
oli oli:
Yeah, I coach rugby, it's been 5 years now. Canada's currently strong on 7s, but I don't see "investment" making a difference in Canada's Rugby programme. It's more of a system they would need like Quebec has built for recruiting. Here we do grass roots programmes and the provincial coaches recruit at the interscholastic level. The real issue is that most kids that are amazing athletes, are also amazing at another sport, which they claim as their main focus, like hockey or soccer. I've trained hundreds of kids between 14 - 19 and only a small handful decided to make rugby their main focus. BC and Ontario are just running off tradition, but with the level of play currently going on in Montreal and Quebec city, and the new recruiting system up top, I think Quebec will be the future of the game in this country. I think this is how we have to look at it, in order to be able to suit up and face greater opposition on the international scene.


I thought soccer had a verry low priority in Canada. When I think rugby, Canada allways comes to mind for some reasone...?
Author:  oli [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Soccer is the most popular sport currently in Canada. About 10 years ago Soccer Canada went hardcore, with little money on recruitment and did the grassroots thing, and it really paid off. for the last 10 years it's been the fastes growing sport in the country. The system is as such: Create an interest through local programmes that are inexpensive (not much equiment required right), within a few years you have enough kids to divide into A, AA, etc... And the expensive part of training serious athletes is done when the interest is already there, and the talent is known, you recruit from your pools regionally. No money is spent scouting, rather the opposite, Soccer leagues charge in the thousands to their players at the AAA level. Recently there has been a Natonal traing center in each region that has sprouted where, MORE money is invested by the player for more advanced training, and it's an invitation only. It's the false sense of prestige and a future in the sport that gets the parents to invest. THEN one or two, maybe none of the players in a Local National Training Centre will be chosen to move on at the end of the off-season. Canada's women have made it very far, clearing the top 5 in the world in some tournaments. On the men's side It's more competetive, more teams, more investment, more coverage, so we lag behind. But consider in the Interantional Rugby Union there aren't nealry as many teams as in FIFA.
Author:  Prestwick [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Rugby has traditionally been strong in the UK in Wales and amongst the middle classes in England and Scotland.

However you are seeing damage being done to the development of the next generation of players in the home nations because teams there import talent from Argentina, Italy, Canada and down under.

In England the problem is especially acute. Despite having one of the highest number of rugby players in the world, its system of introducing new talent to top flight rugby is at best haphazard and at worst shambolic to the extreme. The handling of Matthew Tait in 2005 being the prime example.

In places like Scotland, Wales and Ireland recently, they have carefully and skillfully shepherded their much smaller manpower resources. Thats why the three other Home nations have such strong and vibrant national teams.
Author:  danikyvor [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:45 am ]
Post subject: 
I am a huge HUGE rugby supporter. My husband and I go to all the Scotland games at Murrayfield, as well as following the Edinburgh Rugby (aka Gunners, but they had the name changed) and the Munster team out of Ireland.

Fantastic sport.

And the Canadians do well with it, considering. I believe Canada is ranked 14 or 15 in the International Rugby Standings. Quite a feat.
Author:  Prestwick [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:50 am ]
Post subject: 
The talent that does come out of Canada is excellent, I remember a few Magners League sides recruiting in North America and they served their clubs in Wales and Ireland very well in the last few years.

It shows the potential that Canada shows in Rugby. But as oli (who is at the coalface of Rugby) points out, Canada needs to focus on where rugby is strongest and carefully build on that.

Dimoreien, were you there for when Scotland beat France earlier this year? My mouth hit the floor when I saw the Scottish pack frog march the French back 22 meters in a rolling maul.
Author:  danikyvor [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:55 am ]
Post subject: 
And not to mention that a lot of the Canadian players come over here to play during the year. There's about 5 or 6 Canadians playing for Edinburgh at the moment, the most well known one being Mike Pyke, who played for Canada in the Churchill Cup.

Yeah we were there :D WE were also there when we kicked the ass out of England! lol Sorry. :D

We've got tickets to see Australia, Romania, and the Pacific Islands next month. Can't wait! We've also got tickets to all the home games at Murrayfield for the 6 Nations. So Ireland, Wales and Italy. We desperately want to go to the World Cup but it's soo expensive. :S
Author:  Prestwick [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:02 am ]
Post subject: 
$1:
Yeah we were there WE were also there when we kicked the ass out of England! lol Sorry.


Heh, I'm not bitter, the better side won on the day. Dazzling defence, iron discipline and skillful mastery of the damp conditions made all the difference in that game.

England on the other hand were disorganised, unruly and gave away so many penalties it was unbelievable. Also they were incredibly unimaginative, simply hammering away at a Scottish defence that even the All Blacks found difficult to breach in November 2005.

I might see if I can snag tickets to see Scotland vs Wales because that is always a corker of a game (I'll be back in Aberdeen at University by then).

As for the World Cup, I say just travel over there and soak in the atmosphere, they'll have the games on in the bars and cafes in the town the game is being played in so go over there and enjoy yourself!
Author:  danikyvor [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:04 am ]
Post subject: 
That's an idea! Just go to FRance. Good idea! Some of the pool games will be played here too so we can always check them out as well :D

I've just been off the Edinburgh Rugby site, and three of the players, Chris Paterson, Simon Webster and Scott Murray will be appearing on Most Haunted Live Sunday night, as they're in Edinburgh for the halloween sweeps! ooooooooooooo lol
Author:  Prestwick [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Scott Murrays so scary he'd scare away any spooks! haha :D

Don't know about Chris Paterson though XD

I was thinking about either going to Canada for the summer, or holding back and just backpacking around France following England around. I'll have to have a serious think.

My squad to face New Zealand by the way:

Image

I'm excited about the dream team front row of Sheridan, Chuter and White but also about the rugged power of Pat Sanderson, Corry and Lund. I've seen Sanderson play and he's an awesome Flanker.

Shaun Perry is an awesome Scrum Half, mark my words he'll be the best in the world very soon. He was only a welder about what? 3 years ago and now he's going to play in front of 80,000 people at Twickers. Christ what a meteoric rise to fame!

The only areas I'm worried about is fly-half. The current incumbent is Charlie Hodgson who has a habit of bottling it when the going gets tough. Whats worse is that the alternative is chubby Andy Goode who just boots the ball or Anthony Allen who hasn't got the experience at this level.

Also if Tait can stay fit for five seconds, he and Noon can be a good combo at center. Otherwise we're screwed as we don't have any other decent center combo.
Author:  oli [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, there's definitely some of us across the pond, I have a very good friend living in England at the moment, Bernie McMullen, I think he's plaing for Thornbury now... I'm not sure. Plays 8-man surprisingly enough. He played 8 here in Montreal for TMR RFC, but he's like 32, I didn't think he'd do as well as he has.

It's nice to see someone living the dream. ;-)
Author:  Prestwick [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Being no.8 must be so much fun because if you want, you could be a flanker too if you wanted which means there is so much extra you can do on top of whats expected of you in your primary position.
Author:  oli [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Flankers and 8 are basically the same in open play, even off the scrum on defense, they become scrumhalf/ flyhalf killers, the major difference is the 8s ability to pick up the ball and run off the scrum. Bernie is 6'4" 265lbs, and not much of that is fat. He tackled me once, thank god he's a drag tackler, had it been an impact tackle I'm sure I would have broken a rib or two.
Author:  Prestwick [ Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeeeowch! I bet he has the speed too to be a decent No.8.

Guys like Martin Corry and Lawrence Dallaglio are (or were some might argue) excellent as no.8s.

There was an excellent move at the end of a 5 meter scrum from the line in England vs Wales last year and you saw Dallaglio (no.8 at that time) was primed and ready with the ball and then he just ran full tilt at the Welsh fly half Stephen Jones and quite frankly just ran over the poor Welshman and over the line.

One of the very few England tries last year :(
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