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Klein gets just 55% approval from Tory delegates http://www.canadaka.net/forums/canadian-provincial-politics-f97/klein-gets-just-55-approval-from-tory-delegates-t32353.html	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Armageddon [ Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:00 am ]
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It's unfortunate, but this is the result of his repeated promises to resign.

Author:	badsector [ Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:53 pm ]
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Good ol' Ralphie only got 55%? Yet he single handedly fixed the World economy and turned dirt poor Alberta into a rich province (of course oil had nothing to do with it). He had a tough job on his hand: when an oil company exec showed up to get his signature to set up shop around Fort McMurray, he had to get sober enough to push himself up the table, seize the pen and write his name down. You might think it's easy, but try it after 2 bottles of Whysky! I bet your hands will be shaking and you fall down before writing down a single letter!<br /> <br /> Geez people... give Ralphie some credit!

Author:	Dr Caleb [ Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:28 pm ]
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[QUOTE BY= no1important] <br /> I also bet he will start drinking again.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= badsector]You might think it's easy, but try it after 2 bottles of Whysky! I bet your hands will be shaking and you fall down before writing down a single letter!<br /> <br /> Geez people... give Ralphie some credit![/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Speaking of some credit, heaven forbid any of you should show the slightest sign of an addiction and try to overcome it.<br /> <br /> The man hasn't had a drink in 2 years, or a smoke in more than a year. I'll bet none of you could say the same.<br /> <br /> Klein got 55% of the party delegates, but still holds a far greater percentage of voter support. Yet, no one talks of the Party agenda. Even Doctor Oberg who has held two recent cabinet positions doesn't understand the 'third way'. Why does the party want him gone? To kill the third way, or to put in a Neocon successor?

Author:	badsector [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:12 am ]
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Klein is the luckiest politician in Canada. Anyone who leads an oil rich province at the age of the energy crises should count his blessings.<br /> <br /> It pisses me off that the cons claim all the credit for Alberta's riches. It's like King Fahd attributing Saud Arabia's wealth to his progressive economic policies and conveniently ognoring the oil revenues.<br /> <br /> Anyone would have done well in Alberta. I risk the statement that a Liberal would have done better than Klein. Just look at the oil rich country of Norway. The government decided to keep a firm grip on its oil industry. Oil profits are government revenue and they benefit all Norwegians. The result: every year there is a UN survey on which countries provide the best livign standards. They consider wages, education, health care, social safety net, jobs, etc. Norway consistantly has the first place now while oil rich Canada fell to #7. Ralphie gives a $3-400 check to every ALbertan once a year while the enormous oil profits mostly benefit a small group. I say it's nothing but crumbs. I also say that it's not ALbertan oil, it's Canadian oil. It should beenfit all CAnadians.

Author:	Dr Caleb [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:46 am ]
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Are you seriously trying to troll me?<br /> <br /> Good luck with that.<br />

Author:	badsector [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:24 pm ]
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Facts are trolling? That's so sad.<br /> <br /> In the 80s I worked at several places and everywhere I had a coworker who was from Alberta. Alberta was poor then and Ontario shared its wealth with it. Now Alberta is rich and Ontario getting poor... perhaps it's time for Alberta to share its (Canadian) oil revenue. I saw an inteview on CBC with Alberta's former premier (forgot his name). He was asked whether Alberta should share its wealth with the rest of Canada. He said it should. Alberta is part of Canada and its oil wealth won't last forever. When the oil runs out, Alberta will be back to tourism and agricultura and will probably need help again. Ever heard the expression "you scratch my back I scratch yours?"<br /> <br />

Author:	Armageddon [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:11 pm ]
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[QUOTE BY= badsector] Klein is the luckiest politician in Canada. Anyone who leads an oil rich province at the age of the energy crises should count his blessings.[/quote]<br /> Alberta is rich because of the energy crisis. Selling oil at an average $68 a barrel for when it used to be $30 or so can really bring in revenues. <br /> <br /> [quote]It pisses me off that the cons claim all the credit for Alberta's riches. It's like King Fahd attributing Saud Arabia's wealth to his progressive economic policies and conveniently ognoring the oil revenues.[/quote]<br /> One has to admit Klein and Dinning did some major cutting, which is what I think really did curb our deficit and rid ourselves of debt. But they did acknowledge that it was oil revenues that brought in our surplus. <br /> <br /> [quote]Anyone would have done well in Alberta. I risk the statement that a Liberal would have done better than Klein.[/quote]<br /> It all depends. The Liberals could have pulled it off perhaps, but hey, no one could say, considering the Liberals haven't been in power here for over 50 years. <br /> I totally wouldn't trust the provinical NDP here though, unless I liked our candidate.<br /> <br /> [quote]Just look at the oil rich country of Norway. The government decided to keep a firm grip on its oil industry. Oil profits are government revenue and they benefit all Norwegians. The result: every year there is a UN survey on which countries provide the best livign standards. They consider wages, education, health care, social safety net, jobs, etc. Norway consistantly has the first place now while oil rich Canada fell to #7. Ralphie gives a $3-400 check to every ALbertan once a year while the enormous oil profits mostly benefit a small group. I say it's nothing but crumbs.[/quote]<br /> The system is good as it is now. No debt, high employment, and huge surpluses to boot. The only change I'd recommend is put up a higher royalty demand, since we really do receive little from the actual profits in the end. Nonetheless, I'd let the businesses take care of themselves. Though, I wouldn't mind increasing the corporate tax if it meant lowering the income tax here. That would certainly bring in more wealth as well.<br /> <br /> [quote]I also say that it's not ALbertan oil, it's Canadian oil. It should beenfit all CAnadians.[/QUOTE]<br /> Oh please no. We know what happened with the NEP. Let us remember that since oil is a land resource here, it belongs to the province.<br /> Also, if you don't remember, Alberta pays quite a substantial amount in equalization payments to all other provinces so that their services are kept to the status quo. That is benefit enough.<br /> However, if you really did want to benefit Canadians with oil or natural gas, develop what is ever on the coasts. That is federal at least.

Author:	Dr Caleb [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:04 am ]
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[QUOTE BY= Armageddon]<br /> [quote by badsector]I also say that it's not ALbertan oil, it's Canadian oil. It should beenfit all CAnadians.[/QUOTE]<br /> Oh please no. We know what happened with the NEP. Let us remember that since oil is a land resource here, it belongs to the province.<br /> Also, if you don't remember, Alberta pays quite a substantial amount in equalization payments to all other provinces so that their services are kept to the status quo. That is benefit enough.<br /> However, if you really did want to benefit Canadians with oil or natural gas, develop what is ever on the coasts. That is federal at least.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> That's exactally what I meant about Badsector trolling.<br /> <br /> Alberta's economy is based on increasing investment (be that good or bad). As soon as Prime Minister Badsector intitutes another NEP, the investment will stop again, and Alberta will crash, again.<br /> <br /> Look at the reality badsector. Natural resources are provincial matters. Albertans already contribute more per capita to Confederation than anyone elses. You already get a big chunk of our pie. You want a bigger chunk? Go for it. You'll just get the Alberta Seperatists riled up again, and people without jobs are very militant.<br /> <br /> Cases in point:<br /> <br /> <a href='http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=a1lS2DUSXfEo&refer=canada'>Linkie</a><br /> <br /> <a href='http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1144058692966&call_pageid=968350072197&col=969048863851'>Linkie2</a><br /> <br /> <a href='http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060405.wcowilliams0405/BNStory/specialComment/home'>Linkie3</a><br /> <br /> <a href='http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060404.COSIMP04/TPStory/National/columnists'>Linkie4</a><br /> <br /> Vive is about bringing Canadians together, talk about another NEP is just divisive.<br /> <br /> Funnily enough, I never hear anyone wanting a bigger chunk of the NWT's diamond production, or about moving Ontairo's auto industry where jobs are needed more.

Author:	Marcarc [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:45 am ]
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I don't think you've been around the country very much if you don't think other parts of the country think Ontario should share the auto sector. Trouble is that its a tough industry to ship around since it relies so much on transportation. But look at R&D, there you don't need companies with plants close together, so you see companies like RIM which got federal money to spread the wealth around and now they are opening a huge facility in Nova Scotia.<br /> <br /> As for diamonds, CANADIANS have been lobbying forever to get finishing facilities for diamonds in Canada. Canada simply provides raw diamonds as a commodity and gets hardly squat out of it. It certainly isn't like the NWT are swimming in dough and jobs because of it.<br /> <br /> However, I still haven't heard exactly what was so wrong about the NEP. However, I saw absolutely no reason for the feds to pony up billions for mad cow, if Alberta had money for it, they could have paid it themselves. The beef industry bragged for years about how happy it was to be completely private and away from those evil government people.<br /> <br /> Petro Canada was still partly a public company when it started the work in Alberta. THere are hundreds of taxation policies which are essentially federal subsidies in Alberta, so let's not pretend that the federal government has NO place in making comments.<br /> <br /> Yet Alberta still has a poverty rate that is similar to other provinces, it still has the lowest minimum wage. Just because a government is rich, doesn't mean people are. <br /> <br /> Keep in mind that Klein only has the support of less than half of the voters, and barely only half of his own party, which means the guy almost literally governs with less than a quarter support of Albertans. So we certainly can't assume from that that Albertans are happy with the way things are being run there.

Author:	Dr Caleb [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:33 am ]
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[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] I don't think you've been around the country very much if you don't think other parts of the country think Ontario should share the auto sector. Trouble is that its a tough industry to ship around since it relies so much on transportation. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> True enough, but when I see trainloads of cars heading west . . .I can't help but think they could be built here, if we had the steel industry.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] But look at R&D, there you don't need companies with plants close together, so you see companies like RIM which got federal money to spread the wealth around and now they are opening a huge facility in Nova Scotia.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> RIM is indeed a sucess story. Alberta is also heavily funding R&D, especially Nanotech.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] As for diamonds, CANADIANS have been lobbying forever to get finishing facilities for diamonds in Canada. Canada simply provides raw diamonds as a commodity and gets hardly squat out of it. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Ahhhh! But we do have the finishing facilities! Part of the Daivik agreement is that finishing is done by natives, and right now, there are many many Turk and Azerbijjani diamond cutters training natives their craft. In Yellowknife. Check it out, Tiffinays has two locations, New York, and Yellowknife.<br /> <br /> http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/news/2002/100302story.html<br /> http://www.iti.gov.nt.ca/diamond/timeline.htm<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] It certainly isn't like the NWT are swimming in dough and jobs because of it.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> But they are as well. Both Diamond mines (and two proposed) agreements are that natives get jobs first. TLocal natives operate the plants, the trucks, the operations, and are starting to cut the diamonds too.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] However, I still haven't heard exactly what was so wrong about the NEP. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Well, controlling the price of oil artificially for one. Regulating a provincial resource for another (but just one province). You really aught to look it up. It's still a sore spot here. Seriously. The Feds, and anyone else who didin't live here and see the impact it had should not ever repeat that mistake again.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] However, I saw absolutely no reason for the feds to pony up billions for mad cow, if Alberta had money for it, they could have paid it themselves. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Well, international trade is a federal matter. As for coughing up dough, didn't you read the news? Alberta matched federal funds dollar for dollar.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] The beef industry bragged for years about how happy it was to be completely private and away from those evil government people.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Of course they are. But now they are forgien owned too.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Petro Canada was still partly a public company when it started the work in Alberta. THere are hundreds of taxation policies which are essentially federal subsidies in Alberta, so let's not pretend that the federal government has NO place in making comments.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> They can comment all they want. When they take away a provinces right to it's own resources, whether it's Alberta oil, BC timber or Nova Scotia Lobster - it's wrong.<br /> <br /> Taxation policies that are federal subsidies? WTF??<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Yet Alberta still has a poverty rate that is similar to other provinces, it still has the lowest minimum wage. Just because a government is rich, doesn't mean people are. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Bingo! So PM Badsector wants to take away all our oil revenue, then all the people scraping by on minimum wage working at Timmies won't have jobs ethier. Whether people believe in it or not, many jobs do depend on the 'trickel down' effect from oil. You take away oil exploration, those people don't spend money at the grocery store etc.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Keep in mind that Klein only has the support of less than half of the voters, and barely only half of his own party, which means the guy almost literally governs with less than a quarter support of Albertans. So we certainly can't assume from that that Albertans are happy with the way things are being run there.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> (...and back on topic <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> )<br /> <br /> Incorrect. Klein regularally gets 80% and up approval ratings from the public. Just because they didn't vote for him, doesn't mean we think he isn't doing a good job.<br /> <br /> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060405.KLEIN05/TPStory/<br />

Author:	badsector [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:10 pm ]
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[QUOTE]As soon as Prime Minister Badsector intitutes another NEP, the investment will stop again, and Alberta will crash, again.[/QUOTE]<br /> No it won't. Alberta crashed before because the oil crises of the 70s was resolved, OPEC started pumping oil again and demand was much lower than today. The high oil prices guarantee that investors won't leave anytime soon.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]However, I saw absolutely no reason for the feds to pony up billions for mad cow, if Alberta had money for it, they could have paid it themselves.[/QUOTE]<br /> Yes, them evil liberals gave all that money to help out the richest province in Canada. Then they said thank you and elected cons all over Alberta.<br /> <br /> Regarding them equalization payments, when were the amounts established? Before or after the oil money started coming in? Ontario is still paying the same it had to when things were rosy. So is ALberta.

Author:	lis2005 [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:30 pm ]
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Honestly, I am sorry to see him go.<br /> <br /> He may only have 55% of the support from his own party, but voter support is much higher. I think the problem that all Albertans are having with this issue is that he's been here for so long, it's frightening to have someone else in power.<br /> <br /> Everybody in this province hated Klein, until he had that nice little presentation that stated we were "paid in full" .. then his voter support went up. Everyone complained about education & health cuts.. but nobody complained when they ran to the bank to cash their $400.00 cheques!! <br /> <br /> The thing that really gets to me over this issue is now his own party is turning on him now that we have this money. A new leader will be chosen, and this guy won't have to make the same kind of sacrifices Klein's government had to make to get us "paid in full" ... it makes me shake my head.<br /> <br />

Author:	Marcarc [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:28 pm ]
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Polls are notoriously unreliable. However, votes don't lie. Klein got less than 50% of the votes last election. And that's even though the tories were a shoe in so most people knew damn well that other votes were a waste of time. This was a drop of 15% from the previous election. The highest increase in voter support went to the Alberta Alliance Party. <br /> <br /> <br /> So like I said, Klein isn't nearly as popular as SOME albertans would like people to believe, and this just proves it.

Author:	badsector [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:04 pm ]
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Different people have different ideas of what's wrong and what's right. Some people take the $400 and get drunk, then learn to deal with the problems with healthcare and education. Others would rather have the money invested in these programs.

Author:	Armageddon [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:12 pm ]
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[QUOTE BY= badsector] <br /> No it won't. Alberta crashed before because the oil crises of the 70s was resolved, OPEC started pumping oil again and demand was much lower than today. The high oil prices guarantee that investors won't leave anytime soon.[/quote]<br /> BS, our economy went down the tube because with oil prices capped in the eastern provinces, we had to sell as much but at a smaller amount than what the real world prices were. Essentially, that was sucking money away from us. Not to mention that the PGRT taxed us heavily on any amount of revenue we produced from oil profits.

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