[raydan]

Thanos Thanos:

Lemmy Lemmy:

....there are more effective ways to achieve that, specifically education, taxation and treatment....

If that were true there'd be no war on illegal drugs because everyone would be *educated enough (which they all should be by now) to never want to do illegal drugs. The hammer of punishment has to be maintained just for those who simply don't get it.

*seriously, how fucking stupid are some people at this point in the game that they still can't figure out that if they get involved with coke/crack/heroin/meth/etc that they're basically going to destroy themselves?

Don't forget cigarettes, alcohol and gambling.

[Thanos]

I support the full legalization of all drugs as long as I'm not financially obligated through my taxes to pay for the treatment and rehab of any of the idiots who willingly chose to consume them and then got addicted as the result of their own stupidity. That's my line in the sand right there.

[andyt]

Thanos Thanos:

Lemmy Lemmy:

....there are more effective ways to achieve that, specifically education, taxation and treatment....

If that were true there'd be no war on illegal drugs because everyone would be *educated enough (which they all should be by now) to never want to do illegal drugs. The hammer of punishment has to be maintained just for those who simply don't get it.

*seriously, how fucking stupid are some people at this point in the game that they still can't figure out that if they get involved with coke/crack/heroin/meth/etc that they're basically going to destroy themselves?

Oh, come on. The war on illegal drugs didn't come about because Lemmy's solutions failed. It came about from moralizing and politics. Why is pot illegal and booze legal again? Funny how you left pot out of your list there.

The hammer of punishment is sure not working, even those wielding the hammer say so. And there would still be a hammer of punishment, just applied differently. And a carrot to go with the hammer - do it the legal way. Much better than the mess we're making now.

[andyt]

Thanos Thanos:

I support the full legalization of all drugs as long as I'm not financially obligated through my taxes to pay for the treatment and rehab of any of the idiots who willingly chose to consume them and then got addicted as the result of their own stupidity. That's my line in the sand right there.

You pay for cig treatment. Sugar/fat/salt treatment. Skydiving treatment. Speeding treatment. Boooooooze treatment. What's different about the drugs you have in mind. Cheaper than the criminal system anyway.

Or, I support the criminalization of all drugs, including alcohol as long as I donk't have to pay the justice sytem costs for same.

[raydan]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Legislating morality doesn't just "rarely work", it never works. If society decides that certain behaviours should be discouraged, there are more effective ways to achieve that, specifically education, taxation and treatment. Leave morals out of courtrooms; they just plug up the system and consume tax dollars without benefit. I'd expect that to make sense to tight-wad conservatives like yourself.

Completely disagree.

Our laws are based on morality. So for you to say that morality has no place in the Courts is nothing short of ridiculous. Our laws are based on our morals as a society.

To a point, some Christians base their morals on the ten commandments but only 3 of them are laws. Some laws have nothing to do with morals.

[raydan]

Thanos Thanos:

I support the full legalization of all drugs as long as I'm not financially obligated through my taxes to pay for the treatment and rehab of any of the idiots who willingly chose to consume them and then got addicted as the result of their own stupidity. That's my line in the sand right there.

I can understand and accept that... but don't forget all the other stupid things people do that cost us money.

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Legislating morality doesn't just "rarely work", it never works. If society decides that certain behaviours should be discouraged, there are more effective ways to achieve that, specifically education, taxation and treatment. Leave morals out of courtrooms; they just plug up the system and consume tax dollars without benefit. I'd expect that to make sense to tight-wad conservatives like yourself.

Completely disagree.

Our laws are based on morality. So for you to say that morality has no place in the Courts is nothing short of ridiculous. Our laws are based on our morals as a society.

What morality is it that says booze should be legal but pot not? Certainly not the Christian tradition.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

What morality is it that says booze should be legal but pot not? Certainly not the Christian tradition.

You'd have to ask the people who made that decision as I wasn't part of the decision making process.

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

andyt andyt:

What morality is it that says booze should be legal but pot not? Certainly not the Christian tradition.

You'd have to ask the people who made that decision as I wasn't part of the decision making process.

Nice Charger you're driving there. You defend the decision, you own it.

[Thanos]

andyt andyt:

Thanos Thanos:

Lemmy Lemmy:

....there are more effective ways to achieve that, specifically education, taxation and treatment....

If that were true there'd be no war on illegal drugs because everyone would be *educated enough (which they all should be by now) to never want to do illegal drugs. The hammer of punishment has to be maintained just for those who simply don't get it.

*seriously, how fucking stupid are some people at this point in the game that they still can't figure out that if they get involved with coke/crack/heroin/meth/etc that they're basically going to destroy themselves?

Oh, come on. The war on illegal drugs didn't come about because Lemmy's solutions failed. It came about from moralizing and politics. Why is pot illegal and booze legal again? Funny how you left pot out of your list there.

The hammer of punishment is sure not working, even those wielding the hammer say so. And there would still be a hammer of punishment, just applied differently. And a carrot to go with the hammer - do it the legal way. Much better than the mess we're making now.

The education system's been hammering what usually happens to people when they get involved with hard drugs into the heads of students for over forty years now. At this stage of education failure it has to be seen that anyone who decides to do hard drugs anyway has freely made their own decision to do so. Therefore they should be morally, legally, and financially responsible all on their own for the consequences of their own freely-made decisions.

Screw the addicts. Anyone who decides to party 'til they puke can clean up the mess themselves and not expect everyone else to come and bail them out from their own retarded lifestyle choices.

[andyt]

Same with cigs

Same with abuse of booooooooooooooooze. "Screw the drunks. Anyone who decides to party 'til they puke can clean up the mess themselves"

Same with all sorts of high risk activities.

25% of people who try heroin go on to become addicted.

[Thanos]

Pro-drug folks and libertarians love the party. They love it even more when someone else has to cover the costs for it. This is what makes this issue such endless fun what with the part about pointing out their two-faced bullshit until their heads explode.

[Lemmy]

Thanos Thanos:

I support the full legalization of all drugs as long as I'm not financially obligated through my taxes to pay for the treatment and rehab of any of the idiots who willingly chose to consume them and then got addicted as the result of their own stupidity. That's my line in the sand right there.

You're already paying those treatment costs, plus the costs of policing, courts, etc.

[Thanos]

I have no problem with paying for the systems and mechanisms that maintain order in our society.

[andyt]

Thanos Thanos:

I have no problem with paying for the systems and mechanisms that maintain order in our society.

Me neither. When can we expect to see them do that in regard to drugs? We've certainly spent enough money on them.