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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:08 pm
 


Jonny_C Jonny_C:
This is a time for anger, and condemnation, and sympathy for the victims. It's not the time for examining the motives of terrorists. If JT had made such a statement a week or two from now, instead of it forming his first public reaction, it would be acceptable.

As it is, however, he stepped in it, and badly. And I say that as someone who's not averse to him.

He gave Harper a gold-plated opportunity to nail him.


I think there's room for both. One can have indignation and reflection - raw emotion and reason. These episodes don't occur in a vacuum and pausing to ask what the motivations were and observing the obvious that the people who do these things are angry people on the fringe of society and suggesting an effort is needed to bring them back is not some terrible observation. I bet if Harper had said this most of left leaders here would be losing their mind while the Harper supporters backed their man.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:25 pm
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
I think there's room for both. One can have indignation and reflection - raw emotion and reason. These episodes don't occur in a vacuum and pausing to ask what the motivations were and observing the obvious that the people who do these things are angry people on the fringe of society and suggesting an effort is needed to bring them back is not some terrible observation. I bet if Harper had said this most of left leaders here would be losing their mind while the Harper supporters backed their man.


The biggest problem with Trudeau's statement is that, unless I missed something, we don't even really know who did it, or what ideology they might abide by. No matter the ideology, I don't see how you can make any effort to bring them from the fringe, considering the extremist views such fringe groups might have. On top of that, the United States, in my views, grants such fringe elements to speak without threat of government censure that you might see up here in Canada, so there's very little outreach the United States could provide without actually accepting some of their extremist views.

I just think it's a stupid statement, even if Harper or a Conservative/right wing politician said it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:39 pm
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
BigBri BigBri:
I wonder if this is the work of North Korean terrorists :)


Yeah...clearly. :roll:

Just my way of saying how lightly I take that regime dude :)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:45 pm
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
Yeah. And of course based on nothing, the thread will knee jerk it's way into another Muslim blamefest as the usual suspects will extrapolate in the most partisan way possible, a connection between Trudeau's statement and then ham fistedly make comparisons with 9/11.

Ridiculous but many tap out at the emotional knee jerking.

Relax. If they can pin it on Muslims


I didn't pin squat on anybody. Quit flying off the handle, it's unbecoming.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:12 am
 


Trudeau, not yet ready for prime-time.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:25 am
 


He's still got a couple of years to put up or fuck up, before the next election. Clearly, he's stumbled at the start, but this race is more than just a short sprint. Obviously he lacks the polished oratory skills and confidence(arrogance) of the Father


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:51 am
 


Did see his reference (Blessed be the Holy Charter of Rights) to the disgusting lack of any celebration at the Charter's 25th and 30th anniversaries?

That doesn't bode well to me. The left of centre just went a lot further left. Maybe Stevie will get my vote after all.

Trudeau is going to be an old style (1970s-80's) Liberal. The votes he's fighting for are NDP not Tory.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:04 am
 


As I've said before, he needs to grab the Red Tory and Blue Liberal votes from the Conservatives if he hopes to be relevant. If he alienates them, by staying left of centre, he'll never see his old digs at 24 Sussex. His biggest foe is the CPC, not Mulcair and the NDPQ(or whatever new name they come up with). Steve just has to step on his more vocal social conservatives, and he'll remain PM.....possibly with a minority.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:05 am
 


Early days for him. He'll season up or not n the next two years.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:21 am
 


saturn_656 saturn_656:
Gunnair Gunnair:
Yeah. And of course based on nothing, the thread will knee jerk it's way into another Muslim blamefest as the usual suspects will extrapolate in the most partisan way possible, a connection between Trudeau's statement and then ham fistedly make comparisons with 9/11.

Ridiculous but many tap out at the emotional knee jerking.

Relax. If they can pin it on Muslims


I didn't pin squat on anybody. Quit flying off the handle, it's unbecoming.


I'm sure you have a mirror nearby. Maybe there's more than one flying off the handle here.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:46 am
 


commanderkai commanderkai:
Gunnair Gunnair:
I think there's room for both. One can have indignation and reflection - raw emotion and reason. These episodes don't occur in a vacuum and pausing to ask what the motivations were and observing the obvious that the people who do these things are angry people on the fringe of society and suggesting an effort is needed to bring them back is not some terrible observation. I bet if Harper had said this most of left leaders here would be losing their mind while the Harper supporters backed their man.


The biggest problem with Trudeau's statement is that, unless I missed something, we don't even really know who did it, or what ideology they might abide by. No matter the ideology, I don't see how you can make any effort to bring them from the fringe, considering the extremist views such fringe groups might have. On top of that, the United States, in my views, grants such fringe elements to speak without threat of government censure that you might see up here in Canada, so there's very little outreach the United States could provide without actually accepting some of their extremist views.

I just think it's a stupid statement, even if Harper or a Conservative/right wing politician said it.


Yes, because if you are calling for examination of root causes before you have a suspect you appear to be saying there may be an excuse for this which would supersede condemnation of the act, or might require a different response. To which I would simply reply...Bullshit.

Sounds like some idiotic, psycho-babble, BS indoctrinated at the under-graduate level. Sounds like something a substitute teacher might say.


Last edited by N_Fiddledog on Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:51 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
I bet if Harper had said this most of left leaders here would be losing their mind while the Harper supporters backed their man.


Can't really argue with that, but things are more interesting if you try to keep an open mind to both sides and try to view things objectively.

More skeptical and evaluative, if you can achieve it, rather than partisan.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:58 am
 


A couple of very good posts on "inclusiveness" in this thread, Commanderkai, but the system won't allow me to give you a + right now.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:36 am
 


While JT is looking for "root causes", here's the first response of the people of Boston to the incident designed to invoke terror.

Myself, I prefer it.



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:48 am
 


Jonny_C Jonny_C:
A couple of very good posts on "inclusiveness" in this thread, Commanderkai, but the system won't allow me to give you a + right now.


I'll remind you in the future :lol:


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