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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:04 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Most. Pretty depressing for the younger generation though. It's not because baby boomers are naturally socailly conservative, it's just because they are old and old people are more scared of change. Not all though!


I BEG YOUR PARDON! I will have you know that I change my underwear at least once a month, humph....afraid of change....how dare you!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:25 pm
 


You know the one thing that I think is almost laughable in this whole debate is that I honestly don’t think ol’ Justin is overly sincere in his quest to liberate dutchie passing stoners across Canada from these “archaic and unjust” laws. It’s nothing more than a publicity stunt to win the Dorito vote. I’ll bet a dollar to a donut right now that even if he is elected that the only thing he’ll pass on this issue in Parliament will be gas.





PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:55 am
 


dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
You know the one thing that I think is almost laughable in this whole debate is that I honestly don’t think ol’ Justin is overly sincere in his quest to liberate dutchie passing stoners across Canada from these “archaic and unjust” laws. It’s nothing more than a publicity stunt to win the Dorito vote. I’ll bet a dollar to a donut right now that even if he is elected that the only thing he’ll pass on this issue in Parliament will be gas.


Justin, like myself doesn't seem to care much about liberating anyone from drug laws. The argument that won him over was that drugs are sold in schools and that activity means recruitment for gangs, and greater availability of the drug to our youth.

Which quote can you provide to show he even recognizes the issue you speak of?


$1:
Trudeau said that he agrees that pot is bad for kids, but it doesn’t contradict his proposed plan.

“I have said very clearly that the legalization is going to be a path that actually allows us to keep it out of the hands of teens who right now have easier access to buying marijuana than they do to alcohol or cigarettes,” he said.

“And that is where the current approach that Mr. Harper has on the war on drugs is not working, where we’re spending hundreds of millions of dollars every year on a plan that is not keeping marijuana out of the hands of our teens and instead incarcerating and giving criminal records to hundreds of thousands of Canadians over the past few years in a way that is not useful in any way in keeping marijuana out of the hands of our kids.”





PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:05 am
 


Obama administration will not block state marijuana laws, if distribution is regulated
$1:
The Obama administration on Thursday said it will not stand in the way of Colorado, Washington and other states where voters have supported legalizing marijuana either for medical or recreational use, as long as those states maintain strict rules involving distribution of the drug.

In a memo sent Thursday to U.S. attorneys in all 50 states, Deputy Attorney General James M. Cole detailed the administration’s new stance, even as he reiterated that marijuana remains illegal under federal law.

The memo directs federal prosecutors to focus their resources on eight specific areas of enforcement, rather than targeting individual marijuana users, which even President Obama has acknowledged is not the best use of federal manpower. Those areas include preventing distribution of marijuana to minors, preventing the sale of pot to cartels and gangs, preventing sales to other states where the drug remains illegal under state law, and stopping the growing of marijuana on public lands.

A Justice Department official said that Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. had called the governors of Colorado and Washington around noon Thursday to inform them of the administration’s stance.

The official said Holder also told them that federal prosecutors would be watching closely as the two states put in place a regulatory framework for marijuana in their states, and that prosecutors would be taking a “trust but verify” approach. The official said the Justice Department reserves the right to revisit the issue.

Washington state and Colorado last fall approved initiatives to decriminalize the possession of less than an ounce of marijuana. Those laws go beyond provisions for the medical use of marijuana. The District and 18 states have passed laws making it legal to manufacture, distribute and possess marijuana for medicinal purposes.

Until Thursday, the Justice Department and the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy had remained silent about those initiatives, despite repeated requests for guidance from state officials.

Obama told ABC News’s Barbara Walters in a December interview that recreational pot smoking in states that have legalized the drug is not a major concern for his administration.

“We’ve got bigger fish to fry,” Obama said. “It would not make sense for us to see a top priority as going after recreational users in states that have determined that it’s legal.”

The issue has been percolating since Obama took office, and he has repeatedly faced questions about the tension between differing federal and state laws.

When the White House created an online petition program called “We the People” in 2011, marijuana-related petitions were so prevalent that the administration issued four responses to 13 petitions, which had garnered hundreds of thousands of signatures.


R=UP


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:10 am
 


Curtman Curtman:

Justin, like myself doesn't seem to care much about liberating anyone from drug laws. The argument that won him over was that drugs are sold in schools and that activity means recruitment for gangs, and greater availability of the drug to our youth.


Legalization won't change any of that. It doesn't affect anyone under 19.

Keep in mind, if pot is legal it won't be sold to anyone under 19 here in Ontario so all elementary and high school kids will still be buying it from gangs or stealing it from their parents.





PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:14 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Curtman Curtman:

Justin, like myself doesn't seem to care much about liberating anyone from drug laws. The argument that won him over was that drugs are sold in schools and that activity means recruitment for gangs, and greater availability of the drug to our youth.


Legalization won't change any of that. It doesn't affect anyone under 19.

Keep in mind, if pot is legal it won't be sold to anyone under 19 here in Ontario so all elementary and high school kids will still be buying it from gangs or stealing it from their parents.



So kids are selling booze at school there? Gangs are dealing it at the convenience stores? I can't say I saw any of that here.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:20 am
 


Curtman Curtman:

So kids are selling booze at school there? I can't say I saw any of that here.


No, they typically just steal it from their parents or order from a shady dial-a-bottle service.

Weed sales will continue on the black market for anyone under 19 because they have no other way to get it.





PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:23 am
 


Okay, before you were saying

OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Legalization won't change any of that.


Now you're saying it will change that, and it will be more like what we have with booze where the gangs don't bother with it because the 12 year old to 18 year old market is very small, and the profit margin is low.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:33 am
 


Curtman Curtman:
Okay, before you were saying

OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Legalization won't change any of that.


Now you're saying it will change that, and it will be more like what we have with booze where the gangs don't bother with it because the 12 year old to 18 year old market is very small.


Legalization won't change the recruitment for gangs, and greater availability of the drug to our youth.

The 12-18 year old marijuana market is small?

How small is it?





PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:37 am
 


The booze market for kids is what we're comparing to. You tell me why the gangs aren't selling it, but they are selling marijuana. Even if booze is highly taxed, there isn't enough of a market who would make it worthwhile. I'm sure you can probably find examples of where it has happened, but they certainly aren't making billions of dollars a year being the exclusive retailer.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:13 am
 


Curtman Curtman:
The booze market for kids is what we're comparing to. You tell me why the gangs aren't selling it, but they are selling marijuana. Even if booze is highly taxed, there isn't enough of a market who would make it worthwhile. I'm sure you can probably find examples of where it has happened, but they certainly aren't making billions of dollars a year being the exclusive retailer.


We're talking about drug use in school and that activity brings in gangs and 'greater availability'

Legalization won't change marijuana being sold in schools.

Comparing the sale of pot to alcohol in schools is an apples and oranges comparison. Pot is super easy to conseal and easier to

Again, how small is the 18 and under pot market?





PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:20 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Legalization won't change marijuana being sold in schools.


Where are these kids going to get it from? The situation as it stands now here in Manitoba anyway.. The biker gangs produce massive amounts of marijuana. The profit is such that they can buy a brand new house, fill it full of plants fully expecting that it will get raided within 2 years, take a total loss on the property when it gets seized, and still make a healthy profit doing it.

Who's going to produce this underground marijuana in large dangerous residential grow-ops given the new regulated pricing and legally available stuff?

Again, I'm sure it'll happen but regulation will take the profit motive out of it for gangs as regulated suppliers take over their market with lower prices and better quality.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Comparing the sale of pot to alcohol in schools is an apples and oranges comparison. Pot is super easy to conseal and easier to

Again, how small is the 18 and under pot market?


It's not apples to oranges at all. Gangs flourished during alcohol prohibition because they had the entire market, they controlled pricing, distribution, and production. Here we are in post alcohol prohibition, and the gangs cant be bothered with it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:00 pm
 


Curtman Curtman:

Where are these kids going to get it from? The situation as it stands now here in Manitoba anyway.. The biker gangs produce massive amounts of marijuana. The profit is such that they can buy a brand new house, fill it full of plants fully expecting that it will get raided within 2 years, take a total loss on the property when it gets seized, and still make a healthy profit doing it.


From the same place they get it now!

Gangs won't stop selling weed to minors.

Curtman Curtman:
Who's going to produce this underground marijuana in large dangerous residential grow-ops given the new regulated pricing and legally available stuff?


Perhaps the scale to which it's been done will drop, but it'll be made and sold by the same people who sell it now.

Curtman Curtman:
Again, I'm sure it'll happen but regulation will take the profit motive out of it for gangs as regulated suppliers take over their market with lower prices and better quality.


There's been nothing to show that prices will be lower in a government run industry.

If Government is going to use pot sales as a revenue tool, massively undercutting a price people are already happy with is bad business.

Curtman Curtman:
It's not apples to oranges at all. Gangs flourished during alcohol prohibition because they had the entire market. Here we are in post alcohol prohibition, and the gangs cant be bothered with it.


Cigarettes are available at every corner store and yet it's still a multi-billion dollar industry for gangs. Illegal alcohol sales in Ontario is a billion dollar industry as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:00 pm
 


BTW, how small is the under 18 market? If you don't have an answer, just let me know. I'd rather that than have you dodge the question everytime.





PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:15 pm
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Perhaps the scale to which it's been done will drop, but it'll be made and sold by the same people who sell it now.


For what price? If you look at the medical marijuana regulated market, you can buy it for $5/gram -vs- the $15/gram black market price.

I'm glad you see that ending prohibition will reduce profit for gangs, that's a big step for you.


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
There's been nothing to show that prices will be lower in a government run industry.

If Government is going to use pot sales as a revenue tool, massively undercutting a price people are already happy with is bad business.


It happened with Alcohol. Prices dropped, tax revenue went from 0% to 9 billion dollars today.


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Cigarettes are available at every corner store and yet it's still a multi-billion dollar industry for gangs. Illegal alcohol sales in Ontario is a billion dollar industry as well.


Regulation is the only tool we have to fight that. Liberals showed that lowering the price took gangs profit away. Enforcement is unable to cope with that problem either. Regulation is the only thing that has.


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
BTW, how small is the under 18 market? If you don't have an answer, just let me know. I'd rather that than have you dodge the question everytime.


I love my Dodge, but I guess I can help with some estimation for you (under the current prohibition model)


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... e11221668/
$1:
The report released last week shows that 28 per cent of 15-year-olds admitted to having used cannabis in the past year.


We'll need to figure out how much they used, how many of them continued on to use, and how many became habitual users. Then maybe we can extrapolate that number to non 15 year olds. We'll want to know how many 15 year olds live in Canada too.

I don't have an answer for you, but we can work this out if you want.


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