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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:08 pm
 


Title: How market forces are winning the climate change battle
Category: Environmental
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2015-03-17 10:09:06
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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:08 pm
 


Well Well Well.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:00 pm
 


Wonder if Harper will ever figure this out? Probably not, since
Quote:
The Bank of England report found that if the world actually curbs fossil fuels to the extent that climate experts advise, the value of oil and gas assets will decline sharply.
and he's put all our eggs in that particular barrel


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:39 pm
 


The article seems a little dated since Europe's leading green energy countries have killed the subsidies for green energy producers. Holland, Britain, Germany and Denmark have all put a halt to future projects that aren't 100% privately paid for and have ended subsidies for any that are already producing.
And the reason for scrapping those subsidies was the economic cost. Hell, Germany is going full production on lignite mines and power plants. A fossil fuel even worse than the oil sands are claimed to be.

The fact the article even mentions Ontario's supposed "success" with green energy tells me this is a narrative more than an actual news article.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:54 pm
 


Quote:
Surprising new data from the International Energy Agency shows that while the global economy continued to grow in 2014, the amount of carbon dioxide produced didn't.

According to the IEA report, this is "the first time in 40 years in which there was a halt or reduction in emissions of the greenhouse gas that was not tied to an economic downturn."

The IEA found that while the rich countries of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development grew about seven per cent over a four-year period, emissions fell four per cent. And in 2014, when global carbon dioxide production stayed constant, the entire global economy grew a fairly healthy three per cent.


Seems like about as recent data as you can get, and none of your arguments disprove them.


Quote:
With startup encouragement by governments, (including the government of Ontario, much maligned by critics for its solar subsidies) the cost of producing electricity with solar has plummeted. In India, solar can actually match or beat other sources of power.
Maybe the solar subsidies had some effect in Ontario. Maybe not, since he's talking world wide - just because Ontario may or may not have been a success doesn't mean it wasn't anywhere else.


Quote:
The battle against global warming is far from won. But the IEA report is a reassuring sign that with the help of capitalism, fighting an environmental catastrophe will not necessarily lead to an economic one.
Sounds pretty good if it works out. I must say I'm very surprised that CO2 emissions dropped while the world economy grew. That's very encouraging.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:01 am
 


andyt wrote:
Sounds pretty good if it works out. I must say I'm very surprised that CO2 emissions dropped while the world economy grew. That's very encouraging.


Ditto. Encouraging on 2 fronts - that we can curb our pollution and greenhouse gas emissions; and that it won't affect the economy negatively to do so.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:21 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Ditto. Encouraging on 2 fronts - that we can curb our pollution and greenhouse gas emissions; and that it won't affect the economy negatively to do so.


Remind me again of how Canada's GDP is unaffected by declining oil revenues? :idea:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:29 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Ditto. Encouraging on 2 fronts - that we can curb our pollution and greenhouse gas emissions; and that it won't affect the economy negatively to do so.


Remind me again of how Canada's GDP is unaffected by declining oil revenues? :idea:


Oil revenues are declining because oil is being overproduced, not because renewable energy is replacing it. That's what this decoupling of greenhouse gas emissions and the economy is showing. Emissions used to be directly related to the economy, now they aren't. Win-win, all around.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:33 am
 


As the article said tho, there will be winners and losers, and we may well be a loser economically. Time to put more of our efforts in Hydro and geothermal. Tidal too, if that's at all viable. Just don't say the n word.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:46 am
 


Yes! Say the N word! Say it proudly!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:38 am
 


andyt wrote:
Quote:
Surprising new data from the International Energy Agency shows that while the global economy continued to grow in 2014, the amount of carbon dioxide produced didn't.

According to the IEA report, this is "the first time in 40 years in which there was a halt or reduction in emissions of the greenhouse gas that was not tied to an economic downturn."

The IEA found that while the rich countries of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development grew about seven per cent over a four-year period, emissions fell four per cent. And in 2014, when global carbon dioxide production stayed constant, the entire global economy grew a fairly healthy three per cent.


Seems like about as recent data as you can get, and none of your arguments disprove them.


Quote:
With startup encouragement by governments, (including the government of Ontario, much maligned by critics for its solar subsidies) the cost of producing electricity with solar has plummeted. In India, solar can actually match or beat other sources of power.
Maybe the solar subsidies had some effect in Ontario. Maybe not, since he's talking world wide - just because Ontario may or may not have been a success doesn't mean it wasn't anywhere else.

As I said, Britain, Germany, Holland and Denmark have all put a halt to any future green energy projects. Here's part of Germany's solution:
Quote:
Lignite, as this form of compressed peat is known, is becoming an increasingly important part of Germany's effort to phase out nuclear energy. It's also the reason why Atterwasch, a village that survived the Thirty Years' War, a Soviet onslaught at the end of World War II and four hard decades of communist rule is slated to be razed.

The village, with its volunteer fire station and old brownstone church, is to make way for a strip mine in the next decade. Dozens of other villages have fallen victim to the same fate, as coal once again becomes king.

That's from November 2014.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/german-v ... -1.2123665

From Britain, ONE HOUR AGO: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/03 ... er-warned/

From February of this year: http://www.euractiv.com/sections/energy ... ons-312497

From Dec 2014: Spain scraps subsidies for green businesses
http://www.thelocal.es/20141209/spain-s ... renewables

I could keep posting these but you should know how to use Google by now.

Then there's China. A country with 3-4 times the hydroelectric capacity of Canada and yet until very recently, Canada generated about twice as much hydroelectricity as China.
Not to mention that China still derives 70% of it's power generation from coal. In fact China uses almost as much coal as the entire rest of the world, accounting for 49% of global coal consumption.

So, with the countries leading the way in green tech deciding that it's not worth the economic cost to keep subsidizing them, and China consuming half the global coal production, I'm not all that confident in the veracity IEA report.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:47 am
 


Again, none of that argues against economic activity going up, GHG going down. Now, maybe if all those subsidies have been withdrawn, this will reverse in the future, but maybe not. Maybe the pump has been primed enough for industry to do it on it's own. As for China, sounds like things can get a lot better there, lots of room for improvement, and as the article says, they are one of the biggest supporters of green energy. They just have so much catching up to do, but if the trend is there, that's a good sign.

Really, the doubters should be happy about this. It seems to show that GHG can be reduced and still have robust economic growth. Even if there's no AGW at all, reducing CO2 means other pollutants are also reduced. So we get cleaner air and economic growth. Win win. It's what the greenies have been saying for years - there's green in going green.


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