[stratos]

$1:

One was how it stated that prisoners can spend 23 hours a day in their cell.

It's called isolation and prisoners are put in there primarily for their actions once they are put in prison.

[DrCaleb]

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

Sooo, because Harper cut funding to useless native talk-shops and lobby groups this has somehow translated into a rise in native crime by women? Is that really what you're suggesting?

No, I'm saying the people who the article is about said (and on the radio this morning) that the cuts Harper made to the programs that kept women from turning to a life of crime, has caused women to turn to a life of crime. Quelle suprise.

That crime by women has been rising for 10 years, starting at the same time as the cut to those programs, is merely coincidental.

These were not programs. Look them up. They were talk shops.

I did look them up. Hardly 'talk' shops. For example, Harper cut funding to the National Association of Women and the Law.

$1:

The organization is governed by a National Steering Committee that functions as the Board of Directors. NAWL has played a major role in the following milestones towards Canadian women's equality:

inclusion of Sections 15 and 28 in the Charter of Rights & Freedoms,
amendments to sexual assault laws,
positive changes to family law and to the Divorce Act,
rape shield legislation, and
criminal harassment legislation.

http://nawl.ca/en/about

Other organizations, meant to help women deal with legal problems, rape prevention, domestic abuse . . .cut. Like i wrote at the time, Harper just pushed the economic problems down the road in trying to balance a budget for the sake of balancing it.

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

Native crime has been rising as natives formed gangs based on the crips and bloods model, and became more heavily involved in smuggling, prostitution and drug dealing. You think a couple of bucks funding some talk shops was going to have even negligible impact on that?

From the article:

$1:

Many have been victims of crime themselves, he said. More than two-thirds report being sexually abused at some point in their lives, and nearly 90 per cent were physically abused.

It's no wonder, then, they end up in prison, according to Savannah Gentile, director of advocacy and legal issues with the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies.

"I have heard from a number of women that the first time they felt safe was the first night they spent in a prison cell," she said. "And I think that's really an indictment on our communities if the first time a women is safe is when she is behind bars. It's really speaking to a lack, a lack of resources that exist for women."

Yup. "Talk shops". "Native Gangs". Dismiss them, if it makes you feel better. End result is still the same, people who will always be less productive in society because society abandoned them.

[DrCaleb]

stratos stratos:

$1:

One was how it stated that prisoners can spend 23 hours a day in their cell.

It's called isolation and prisoners are put in there primarily for their actions once they are put in prison.

A little perspective that you might be able to relate to:

$1:

The Edmonton Institution for Women is overcrowded and at a breaking point, warns an advocacy group for women in prison.

Volunteers that regularly visit EIFW are reporting conditions "that seem to us like the perfect recipe for disaster at the institutional level," Kassandra Churcher, executive director of the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies (CAEFS), told CBC News.

"The last time they visited, they thought they were on the brink of a riot," Churcher said.

. . .

Gentile said she was most troubled by the treatment of women classified as maximum security inmates, especially those with mental illnesses.

One woman had attempted suicide after being placed in segregation, Gentile said. Instead of moving the woman to a psychiatric ward at a hospital, Gentile said she was kept on suicide watch in the same cell.

"It's not a space for healing," Gentile said. "It's a very isolating experience.

"Those women are just left in a cell with themselves, with their mental health issues, to struggle on their own."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.4342583

$1:

More than half of women in Canadian prisons suffer from poor mental health, Zinger said. Mental illness is twice as prevalent in female inmates as it is in male inmates.

In the last fiscal year, eight per cent of federally-sentenced women self-harmed in more than 200 documented incidents.

Zinger's office recently singled out the Edmonton prison in an letter to Kelley Blanchette, federal Deputy Commissioner for Women.

"More partnerships for beds at outside psychiatric hospitals are urgently needed," states the letter, dated Aug. 21.

"The secure units should be rarely relied upon, and certainly never be used for women with serious mental health issues."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.4346677

$1:

Guards at a women's prison in northwest Edmonton are speaking out about reports of trouble at the federal institution.

One veteran correctional officer says tensions at the Edmonton Institution for Women are higher than she has ever experienced.

"The Edmonton Institution for Women is a powder keg," she told CBC News Wednesday. "That place is going to blow."

The officer, who has a decade of experience with Corrections Canada, asked not to be named due to concerns of repercussions from her employer.

. . .

The number of assaults by inmates has spiked in the last six months, Susan said. She is aware of at least five attacks on staff since August.

Last month, an incident dragged on for six hours as inmates in maximum security made "shit bombs," she said.

"They put poop in a bottle with water to use against staff."

The majority of assaults Susan responds to involve women suffering from mental illnesses and inmates younger than 30.

"This younger population that we have, they're aggressive and they're violent and they don't care," she said.

Recent policy changes have compounded the issue by limiting how correctional officers can protect themselves and inmates, she added.

The federal government this summer imposed limits on solitary confinement, mandating that federal prisoners cannot be held in isolation for more than 15 days.

"When we don't have any other resources to assist a lot of these inmates, what are we supposed to do?" Susan said.

. . .

"We fail mental health inmates incredibly. We seriously fail them. We have nowhere for them to go."

'It's scary going to work every day'

. . .

The strain on correctional officers at the prison can be severe, a third guard — who will be referred to as Ashley — told CBC News Wednesday.

At home, Ashley said she often jumps when touched.

Long hours, confrontations with inmates and mental-health emergencies have led to burnout and stress leave among staff, she said.

"That stuff gets to you," Ashley said. "There's this vicious cycle. People can't keep up.

"It's an environment where you're supposed to be big and tough and not let stuff bother you," she added.

"We're people and we're humans, too, and we're trying our best."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.4349718

[Coach85]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I did look them up. Hardly 'talk' shops. For example, Harper cut funding to the National Association of Women and the Law.

$1:

The organization is governed by a National Steering Committee that functions as the Board of Directors. NAWL has played a major role in the following milestones towards Canadian women's equality:

inclusion of Sections 15 and 28 in the Charter of Rights & Freedoms,
amendments to sexual assault laws,
positive changes to family law and to the Divorce Act,
rape shield legislation, and
criminal harassment legislation.

http://nawl.ca/en/about

Other organizations, meant to help women deal with legal problems, rape prevention, domestic abuse . . .cut. Like i wrote at the time, Harper just pushed the economic problems down the road in trying to balance a budget for the sake of balancing it.

You're only presenting a portion of the story and making a lot of assumptions in the process.

-Did any other programs get funded?
-How many other programs already receive funding?
-Is the program effective?

Cutting funding to programs is not always a bad thing. Programs change direction, some are effective, some are not. We can't just put them on autopilot and give them funding for eternity.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Yup. "Talk shops". "Native Gangs". Dismiss them, if it makes you feel better. End result is still the same, people who will always be less productive in society because society abandoned them.

More rhetoric.

Nobody is being abandoned. Without knowing all of the programs available to these women or how much money was actually cut from these various programs, you're making some wild assumptions without any basis.

[N_Fiddledog]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This just in; Fiscal Conservatism results in higher social and economic costs. Film at 11.

So basically, a CBC opinionator is of the opinion that the opinion of social welfare peddlers that a bigger a welfare state is necessary to fix a problem (many might make the case they created) is fact.

Yeah right...Film at 11.

[DrCaleb]

Coach85 Coach85:

You're only presenting a portion of the story and making a lot of assumptions in the process.

-Did any other programs get funded?
-How many other programs already receive funding?
-Is the program effective?

Cutting funding to programs is not always a bad thing. Programs change direction, some are effective, some are not. We can't just put them on autopilot and give them funding for eternity.

Feel free to use your unlimited subscription to Google and find out.

What in the realm of "Logical Debate" means I'm going to research your argument for you?

[Coach85]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Coach85 Coach85:

You're only presenting a portion of the story and making a lot of assumptions in the process.

-Did any other programs get funded?
-How many other programs already receive funding?
-Is the program effective?

Cutting funding to programs is not always a bad thing. Programs change direction, some are effective, some are not. We can't just put them on autopilot and give them funding for eternity.

Feel free to use your unlimited subscription to Google and find out.

What in the realm of "Logical Debate" means I'm going to research your argument for you?

I'm not asking you to research, I'm asking you to consider some of the things you didn't before you came to your conclusion after making assumptions.

You support the author's assertion that these alleged cuts have caused something negative to happen while knowing little to nothing about the situation or the programs in place to serve these people.

[Thanos]

The Elizabeth Fry and John Howard societies tend to wildly overstate what's happening in prisons. If someone ends up in solitary they condemn it but never bother to say what the inmates have done to deserve it. They shouldn't be automatically trusted because they're long gone from their original missions to stop sadistic abuse of prisoners by guards or other inmates and deep now into a far left-wing cause to basically abolish incarceration altogether. Much like their other failings, like with anything the NDP, the Greens, or environmentalists say, the CBC and other major Canadian media reflexively quote the Fry/Howard types as absolutely unimpeachable in what they say without ever bothering to investigate if it's true.

[Vbeacher]

What do you do with prisoners, especially lifers, who won't follow the rules and/or are violent? If you can't put them in solitary and you can't drug them, what do you do? We gave up flogging and caning some time back, so do we just wag our finger at them?

[raydan]

Anybody else besides me wondering if they have a shortage of male guards in these prisons?

[DrCaleb]

Coach85 Coach85:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Feel free to use your unlimited subscription to Google and find out.

What in the realm of "Logical Debate" means I'm going to research your argument for you?

I'm not asking you to research, I'm asking you to consider some of the things you didn't before you came to your conclusion after making assumptions.

You support the author's assertion that these alleged cuts have caused something negative to happen while knowing little to nothing about the situation or the programs in place to serve these people.

Yes, I support their findings, because that is their focus - keeping women out of prison. I'm just a computer geek. I stick to what I know.

That they found budget cuts contributed to it aligns with what I already know, Harpers cuts to things like the Coast Guard had a negative impact on Kitsilano Bay, and cuts to Marine Transport Safety may have had an impact on endangered whales.

It therefore makes sense that they found cutting the budget for groups and organizations focused on providing support to vulnerable women before they become victims or involved in crime, has resulted in vulnerable women increasingly turning to crime.

You've presented nothing to change my mind about that, and I have no need or desire to research it further.

[DrCaleb]

raydan raydan:

Anybody else besides me wondering if they have a shortage of male guards in these prisons?

Nope. Just you.

(some of those women are nasty!)

[raydan]

Nasty and horny... I'll probably come out of this in as bad a shape as Neelix.

[Vbeacher]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

The organization is governed by a National Steering Committee that functions as the Board of Directors. NAWL has played a major role in the following milestones towards Canadian women's equality:

inclusion of Sections 15 and 28 in the Charter of Rights & Freedoms,
amendments to sexual assault laws,
positive changes to family law and to the Divorce Act,
rape shield legislation, and
criminal harassment legislation.

Like I said, a talk shop and lobby group. There is nothing they did which would have had any influence on the rate of crime committed by native women.

$1:

Yup. "Talk shops". "Native Gangs". Dismiss them, if it makes you feel better. End result is still the same, people who will always be less productive in society because society abandoned them.

Nothing you've posted contradicts what I posted. It just seems to be some kind of emotionalist attempt at guilt-tripping without any logical behind it.

[Vbeacher]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Yes, I support their findings, because that is their focus - keeping women out of prison. I'm just a computer geek. I stick to what I know.

That they found budget cuts contributed to it aligns with what I already know, Harpers cuts to things like the Coast Guard had a negative impact on Kitsilano Bay, and cuts to Marine Transport Safety may have had an impact on endangered whales.

This is the problem of modern government, especially in the West. It's what causes it to grow and grow until it consumes economies. Every time a program is funded it's designed to help SOMETHING. And often it does. The problem is that there is never an end to problems, and never an end to people lobbying the government to help solve the next new problem. Hell, the government now even pays the lobbyists to lobby it to solve more problems!

But no one ever accepts that the government can cancel a program. Not ever. If every program the government funds is helping something then it stands to reason that if the government cancels it the government will be accused of harming that something. The Tories lost half their Quebec seats a couple of elections back for cancelling a few small arts programs, even though it introduced a few others. The lefties screamed about how cancelling these tiny programs (none of which were particularly important) would destroy the arts in Quebec.

So the only solution is to keep adding new programs while retaining all the existing programs, and just keep on raising taxes and borrowing money. This doesn't bother a disturbing number of people, quite possibly because the majority of Canadians pay few or no taxes. This country, like the US, like the UK, is basically being carried by about a quarter of the population while the rest are freeloaders.

But the inevitable end to ever increasing government is Greece.