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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:59 am
 


Title: New Tesla owners on hook for $14K after sudden end of electric car incentive program
Category: Business
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2018-07-15 02:24:26
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:59 am
 




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:39 am
 


Awww. You mean people that buy those Smugmobiles will now have to go back to buying a car like the rest of the general public? I feel soooooooo bad for them. :roll:

Internal combustion. It's awesome.

-J.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:55 am
 


I'm guessing that the opportunity for the McGuinty/Wynne types to look green-smug was basically the major reason behind subsidizing well-off people so they could buy vehicles that aren't even made in Canada.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:01 pm
 


Oh. Hear that? It's the sound of my heart pumping piss for them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:18 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
Oh. Hear that? It's the sound of my heart pumping piss for them.


Now that's a quality diss comment. :lol:

There was some old guy in Vancouver I read about not too long ago who owned a house estimated to be worth over three million that he bought for like a hundred grand fifty years ago. He was heartbroken because he had to pay about $700 a month in city taxes now. He didn't want to sell and didn't want to take out a reverse-mortgage to cover the costs because apparently at his age, despite his wealth, he genuinely believed he was owed some sort of a break at the expense of the taxpayers so he could live for cheap in the hottest property market on the continent. I think he was about the only person I've heard about lately that I feel even less sympathy for than I do any looking-down-their-noses-at-everyone-else taxpayer-subsidized Ontario Tesla owner.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:30 pm
 


Incentives come and go...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:07 pm
 


I wish I knew Kathleen Wynne in the bad ol' days of Ontario and she gave me $14k to buy a car.

I'd have four grand to spend on gas. In Vancouver that would last at least a week.

Or did I get something wrong? [huh]


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:11 pm
 


Oh Jeez you damn snivellers you weren't even paying for the subsidy, the big companies did so out of cap & trade. The program the coalburner Ford had to kill to play up to the deadbeats, diniers and defenders of anything Wynne did must be destroyed.
Gee, policy sound familiar?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:26 pm
 


My newest addition to the Prog to English dictionary:

Mocking = sniveling.

(But only when its right to left, of course.)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:16 pm
 


Mocking is when you have enough brains to know better.
It just just seems like the typical why should I pay. I don't like electric cars bleat like most Yanks on GasBuddy.
Quote:
so they could buy vehicles that aren't even made in Canada.

Electrameccanica in Vancouver. Toyota hybrid RAV4 will be built in Ontario. But don't be leaders in innovation. Those aren't conservatives anymore now the bawling bean-counting roadblocks to progress have proclaimed themselves the chosen kind.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:23 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Oh Jeez you damn snivellers you weren't even paying for the subsidy, the big companies did so out of cap & trade. The program the coalburner Ford had to kill to play up to the deadbeats, diniers and defenders of anything Wynne did must be destroyed.
Gee, policy sound familiar?


You might want to read this before you call people snivellers and claim they weren't even paying for the subsidies because if Canada is anything at all like America nobody but the good old taxpayer was paying for the overpriced unprofitable vehicles from companies that couldn't even break even with their product: [B-o]

Most of the taxpayers who are subsidizing Tesla cars cannot afford to buy one.


It’s natural to assume the enemy of your enemy is your friend, especially when the enemy in question is big government. So it should come as no surprise that many conservatives have rallied to the side of Elon Musk and his electric-car company, Tesla Motors, in their fights to change state auto-retailing laws so they can sell vehicles directly to consumers, without using franchised auto dealerships.

Bans on direct sales don’t make much sense, and it would be great to have a less regulated automotive market. But it is dangerous to allow Tesla to portray itself as a free-market champion, because the company is actually a prodigious harvester of government favors and handouts.

Tesla’s flagship automobile, the Model S, would not only fail to make money in a free market, it would likely bankrupt any company that tried. As the Los Angeles Times reported, Tesla’s “cars themselves aren’t making the company any money.” A Model S with a typical options package sells for more than $100,000, but that is literally tens of thousands of dollars less than it costs to manufacture and sell.

How, then, does Tesla make its money?

The direct subsidies for purchasers, to encourage them to buy “clean-energy” vehicles, are fairly well-known: a $7,500 federal tax credit and a wide variety of state-level incentive programs. (Tesla has them all listed conveniently here.)

Less well-known are the hidden subsidies that flow directly to Tesla, thanks to “zero-emission vehicle” (ZEV) credits. ZEV credits are a mandate dreamed up by the bureaucrats at the California Air Resources Board (CARB), which requires manufacturers to build and dealers to sell an arbitrary number of “zero-emission” vehicles each year. (Note that these vehicles are actually “zero-emission” only in the unlikely event that the electricity used by the car comes from a zero-emission source — which, of course, would also be heavily subsidized.)

Tesla’s Model S generates four credits per unit sold. This means the company can sell $20,000 in ZEV credits to other manufacturers for each Model S sold — a cost borne by purchasers of other cars.

And that amount used to be even higher. Because ZEV law is so arcane, Tesla was able to game the system for additional credits; for example, it was able to generate an additional three credits per vehicle when it demonstrated to CARB that its batteries could theoretically be rapidly swapped. But in fact the battery-swapping pilot program is more than a year late getting started. Nonetheless, those extra credits netted the company an additional $15,000 per car sold — and the company is now trying to get them reinstated.

In 2013, ZEV credits to Tesla totaled $129.8 million — to a company that lost $61.3 million for the year on its actual manufacturing and selling operations.

In 2014, Nevada lavished the company with one of the biggest corporate-welfare packages in history: In exchange for building a battery-manufacturing facility near Reno, Tesla will pay no payroll or property taxes for ten years and no sales taxes for 20 years, and will receive $195 million in cash via “transferable tax credits,” which can be sold to other companies to satisfy their Nevada tax bills. All of this amounts to a $1.3 billion giveaway.

Tesla and its apologists constantly tout the fact that the company paid off its hefty $465 million taxpayer-subsidized loan from the Department of Energy early, but they don’t explain why: Had the loan not been paid early, the U.S. Treasury stood to grab a significant portion of the company’s increased stock price by exercising warrants. Capitalizing on the subsidy-stoked electric-car mania that pumped its stock to record levels, Tesla issued $450 million in new stock to pay the loan early and cancel those warrants. The shrewd deal cost taxpayers about a billion dollars, leading Scott Woolley to conclude: “Tesla is worse than Solyndra.”

Tesla has effectively socialized its costs through subsidized loans, tax credits, abatements, and regulatory schemes while privatizing its gains by canceling the warrants owned by taxpayers.

Every time a Tesla is sold, we witness a transfer of wealth to a rich hobbyist (most Teslas are their owners’ third or fourth car), while average Americans are on the hook for at least $30,000 in federal and state subsidies. Tesla is more a regulatory arbitrageur than an auto manufacturer.

In its 2014 annual report, Tesla made clear that continued special tax benefits are critical to the company’s business plan: “Our growth depends in part on the availability and amounts of government subsidies and economic incentives.”


Yet the company and Musk are now free-market heroes because they want to disrupt the franchised-dealer system? Sorry, but no. Prohibitions on direct vehicle sales are restraints of trade that shouldn’t exist, but I have mixed feelings at best about repealing them for the purpose of making it easier for Tesla to fleece taxpayers.

As Mike Jackson, CEO of AutoNation, the largest U.S. auto-retailing company, aptly put it: “There’s a certain irony here that as Elon Musk complains about government intervention and government protectionism, he wouldn’t exist without the government.”

When Tesla paid back its loan early to extinguish the warrants, Musk stated that he wanted to thank “the American taxpayer, from whom these funds originate. I hope we did you proud.”

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/01/ ... il-kerpen/


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:56 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Oh Jeez you damn snivellers you weren't even paying for the subsidy, the big companies did so out of cap & trade. The program the coalburner Ford had to kill to play up to the deadbeats, diniers and defenders of anything Wynne did must be destroyed.
Gee, policy sound familiar?


The subsidy was in place long before the cap and trade program. Nice try though.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:12 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Mocking is when you have enough brains to know better.
It just just seems like the typical why should I pay. I don't like electric cars bleat like most Yanks on GasBuddy.


But surely a supergenius like yourself can figure out it's not electric cars being mocked. It's subsidies.

You lost your subsidy...

Image

How is that "snivelling?" Only a Prog would know. They have their own language.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:58 pm
 


Meh they can always charge them in front of Tim Horton's.


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