[N_Fiddledog]

Now as far as how reliable "China says" is, here's what the BBC was saying last year:

China coal power building boom sparks climate warning

Quote:

Building work has restarted at hundreds of Chinese coal-fired power stations, according to an analysis of satellite imagery.

The research, carried out by green campaigners CoalSwarm, suggests that 259 gigawatts of new capacity are under development in China.

The authors say this is the same capacity to produce electricity as the entire US coal fleet.

The study says government attempts to cancel many plants have failed.

According to this study, there was a surge in new coal projects approved at provincial level in China between 2014 and 2016. This happened because of a decentralisation programme that shifted authority over coal plant construction approvals to local authorities.

The report says that at present China has 993 gigawatts of coal power capacity, but the approved new plants would increase this by 25%.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45640706

And here's what Reuters was saying a few days ago:

Study: China Bucks Shift Away From Coal-Fired Power

Quote:

SHANGHAI —
China restarted construction on more than 50 gigawatts (GW) of suspended coal-fired power plants last year, bucking a global shift away from fossil fuels, a new study showed Thursday.

China has repeatedly pledged to reduce its reliance on coal, a major source of smog and climate-warming greenhouse gases, and it has cut coal’s share of its total energy mix to 59 percent, down from 68.5 percent in 2012.

But satellite images show China “quietly resumed” construction in 2018 on dozens of previously shelved plants, making it a “glaring exception to the global decline,” said a joint report by environmental groups Global Energy Monitor, Greenpeace and the Sierra Club.

The report warned that China could build an additional 290 GW of capacity, more than the whole of the United States’ coal capacity, and still remain within the 1,300-GW cap for national coal-fired power generation proposed by the China Electricity Council, an influential industry group.

https://www.voanews.com/a/study-china-b ... 51508.html

[BeaverFever]

N_Fiddledog wrote:

I think I've finally figured out your problem with memes, Beave.

They often rely on an underlying truth. The Beave brain doesn't seem to want to pick that up.

In this case the truth core powering the meme is Canada isn't actually contributing much if anything to this alleged problem of a coming warming apocalypse. Canada doesn't create enough greenhouse gases to be any kind of problem even if you believe there is a problem. China does though. And although Canada under the current regime does seem ready to turn it's economy upside down to battle the warming chimera, any intent by China to do anything like that is reliant on two words "China says." Good luck with that.

What you fail to understand is that it doesn’t matter if Canadas GHGs are less than other countries the game only works if everyone plays by the rules. You can’t simply allow certain people to piss in the hottub just because they have smaller bladders than others. The big bladder people aren’t going to agree on special restrictions just on them only. The only way to have a piss-free hot tub is to ban everyone from pissing in it. If you had actually attended any Trump rally after-parties you would have known that.

Also the China carbon market has been well known for a long time and their regional carbon markets have been operating for over 5 years now. So I guess the carbon market doesn’t kill coal jobs after all. Isn’t that your supposed concern?

[N_Fiddledog]

People piss in your hot tube, Beave? That's outrageous. You know some rude people.

Analogies are easy though. If a group of us are buying lunch and all I want is coffee don't expect me to chip in on your steak. If you're China, don't expect me to pay for it.

China is gluttonous in the amount of coal it consumes and doesn't appear to want to change.

They tell you they have a plan for what sounds like some sort of carbon credits exchange. Such things have never proven to be anything more than a scam. They haven't decreased emissions at all, I know that much. You go to lunch with China. I'm not interested in getting stiffed on the bill again.

[BeaverFever]

No the lunch analogy is wrong. People separately consuming food in no way relates to pollution caused by goods produced in a global market that contamintes the environment that we all share .

You’re the guy who thinks he should be allowed to piss the hot tub because he has s smaller bladder than everyone else.

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever wrote:

No the lunch analogy is wrong.

It's a little lame but so is your hot tub one. We could argue about which one is more lame if you like. But basically lame analogies are easy to come up with if you'd like a different one.

Here's one. Canada isn't so much as nudging the global thermometer on the global furnace. China has it's hand on the dial though and they're not releasing their grip. Why should we Canadians pay the heating bill?

[N_Fiddledog]

Here's one though...

Unlike other countries that have been flying around the world signing useless climate agreements the US has been letting the market deal.

Their emissions have been decreasing:



All they did was Frak a lot and start burning more natural gas. Apparently that works where nothing else does. Why don't we just do that?

You personally, can still pay higher taxes if you like, or build yourself a little windmill or something.

[BeaverFever]

N_Fiddledog wrote:

BeaverFever wrote:

No the lunch analogy is wrong.

It's a little lame but so is your hot tub one. We could argue about which one is more lame if you like. But basically lame analogies are easy to come up with if you'd like a different one.

Here's one. Canada isn't so much as nudging the global thermometer on the global furnace. China has it's hand on the dial though and they're not releasing their grip. Why should we Canadians pay the heating bill?

1) because while China may be a major emitter, China alone is not the problem, it’s the total emissions from everyone around the world

2) because it’s not realistic to expect that certain countries like China willing follow special restrictions that don’t apply to anyone else

3) because we use goods and materials that come from China and so our demand is contributor to the pollution created there

4) because pollution anywhere affects people everywhere, it is like pissing in a hot tub, it’s everyone’s problem

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever wrote:

2) because it’s not realistic to expect that certain countries like China willing follow special restrictions that don’t apply to anyone else

Especially when the restrictions are stupid in general. Even if you believe something has to be done you're not doing it with carbon credits and windmills. Maybe it's time to stop pretending that works.

Something has to be done about China though. At least it does if your mind is made up on this hair-brained idea that something has to be done. China is the biggest problem there. We Canadians don't even move the needle.

They should stop burning so much coal. They should switch to natural gas. We'll send them some at a fair price. No wait, the Progressive Socialists' environmental arm told us we can't.

[housewife]

Beaverfever you live in Toronto and have more options for public transportation. There are lots of places that don’t or it’s so limited it’s not much good. They have gotten rid of passenger trains in northern Ontario and cut bus service. So it’s just penalizing people who don’t live in big cities. Oh and farmers.

[martin14]

BeaverFever wrote:

3) because we use goods and materials that come from China and so our demand is contributor to the pollution created there

As usual, it's whitey's fault. Whitey bad.

Quote:

4) because pollution anywhere affects people everywhere, it is like pissing in a hot tub, it’s everyone’s problem

So your solution is for the small guy to break his urethra trying to hold it in,
providing some kind of silly little 'moral' high ground argument,
hoping and praying the big guy will just stop pissing and laughing all the way
to the bank.

Yeah, no thanks.

[BeaverFever]

housewife wrote:

Beaverfever you live in Toronto and have more options for public transportation. There are lots of places that don’t or it’s so limited it’s not much good. They have gotten rid of passenger trains in northern Ontario and cut bus service. So it’s just penalizing people who don’t live in big cities. Oh and farmers.

I actually live in the suburbs and commute 110 kms round-trip 4 days a week.

I agree that more and better public transit should be a priority everywhere. Not going to happen with right-wing budget austerity and constant tax cuts though. Those require major infrastructure investments.

[BeaverFever]

martin14 wrote:

BeaverFever wrote:

3) because we use goods and materials that come from China and so our demand is contributor to the pollution created there

As usual, it's whitey's fault. Whitey bad.

No. Just the ones who think like you.

Quote:

4) because pollution anywhere affects people everywhere, it is like pissing in a hot tub, it’s everyone’s problem

Quote:

So your solution is for the small guy to break his urethra trying to hold it in,
providing some kind of silly little 'moral' high ground argument,
hoping and praying the big guy will just stop pissing and laughing all the way
to the bank.

Yeah, no thanks.

He’s not going to break his urethra that’s just your fearmongering. And regardless of what other countries are doing, it’s amusing that conservatives think we can continue to pollute our own air and water indiscriminately with no consequences and it not costing anyone anything.

[PluggyRug]

BeaverFever wrote:

He’s not going to break his urethra that’s just your fearmongering. And regardless of what other countries are doing, it’s amusing that conservatives think we can continue to pollute our own air and water indiscriminately with no consequences and it not costing anyone anything.

Prey tell, what does air and water pollution have to do with the carbon tax?

[herbie]

And WTF does China have to do with it?

[PluggyRug]

herbie wrote:

And WTF does China have to do with it?

This....