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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:18 pm
 


Title: Kenney to lower business tax rate to bring back the 'Alberta Advantage'
Category: Provincial Politics
Posted By: BeaverFever
Date: 2019-05-13 18:15:42
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:18 pm
 


Might want to call Governor Brownback down in Kansas and ask how that worked out for them.



Last edited by BeaverFever on Mon May 13, 2019 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:22 pm
 


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:16 pm
 


These are business tax cuts, not income tax cuts for the elite. Can't be compared in the slightest in the non-stop giveaway the GOP does for the wealthy in the US.


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:33 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Might want to call Governor Brownback down in Kansas and ask how that worked out for them.


You are being disingenuous. You post a link where Kenney states where he wants to cut business taxes to encourage businesses to invest in Alberta. You than show us a video designed to highlight the pitfalls of lowering the taxes on business. That video clearly shows that not only did Kansas lower taxes on business, but they completely eliminated them on thousands of businesses, and lowered the income tax rates for everyone as well. Its apples and oranges. There is a huge difference in lowering taxes on business to get them to come invest, and lowering or eliminating all your state revenue streams except sales taxes and DMV fees. Huge difference. Kansas should have just lowered taxes on new businesses that promise to employ a certain amount of people to see if it worked or not. Maybe it works,maybe it don't. Its worth a shot.

Painting the picture that lowering taxes on business is always a losing proposition is just wrong. Lets look at Ireland from that same time frame.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/05/14/ ... -happened/
Foreign companies pay 80% of Irish corporate income tax, and employ 25% of the work force. The Irish economy grew by 26.3% in 2015 due to foreign investment. What was Canada doing in 2015? You were sliding into recession by the end of the year because of lower oil prices. One very important Province slowed down, and dragged the entire county's economy into recession. One very important Province where the majority of jobs are created by foreign companies. So I can see why Kenney is very interested in keeping the foreign money flowing in. He might want to start attracting companies involved in manufacturing though. Big oil is moving out. No sense in procuring something when you can't get it to market. Its like setting up a fish market in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. Nothing Kenney can do about that. He is on the right track, wrong industry.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:51 am
 


rickc wrote:
What was Canada doing in 2015? You were sliding into recession by the end of the year because of lower oil prices. One very important Province slowed down, and dragged the entire county's economy into recession. One very important Province where the majority of jobs are created by foreign companies. So I can see why Kenney is very interested in keeping the foreign money flowing in. He might want to start attracting companies involved in manufacturing though. Big oil is moving out. No sense in procuring something when you can't get it to market. Its like setting up a fish market in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. Nothing Kenney can do about that. He is on the right track, wrong industry.


Lowering taxes, and revenue is just Kenney's first step. He's also got a 'focus group' going through all provincial expenses, with the plan to reduce spending. There is also a rumour he's going for a 5% salary reduction in the civil service.

There was another Premier who did these things. Ralph Klein. Know how that turned out? He turned a short term down slide it the economy into a prolonged recession.

Yay. :|


Edit: And we are still trying to catch up to the infrastructure deficit Klein created in road repair, building and maintaining schools, sewers and electrical lines - 20 years on.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:01 pm
 


The thing with tax cuts, especially corporate ones, is that we've been cutting them over and over again for years, to what seems to me like increasingly diminishing returns. Here's a piece from the Globe and Mail:

Quote:

At the heart of the debate is just how effective corporate tax cuts are as a job-creation tool. For companies such as Western Glove, the short answer appears to be not at all. For those companies seeking to make their domestic operations more efficient as they face global rivals, the evidence is less than clear.

Even the most ardent fans of the economic stimulus measure - corporate executives themselves - acknowledge that they are hard pressed to find a direct link between tax cuts and job creation.

The Globe and Mail interviewed executives in the machinery, aviation, food, beer and retailing sectors. All said low taxes foster confidence in the economy. But they said many other factors go into making investment decisions, including the cost of raw materials and the value of the Canadian dollar. Many executives singled out specific programs, such as research and development incentives for small companies and funding for retraining programs, as more effective in creating jobs.



And from south of the border, here's Ben fucking Stein talking about the need for tax increases as well as government spending.

Oh yeah, and according to Mr. Stein, Ronald fucking Reagan, the Gipper himself, raised taxes when he felt it was needed.

And then there's the International Monetary Fund, hated by anti-globalixts and far-leftists the world over, advocating for higher taxes on the rich:

Quote:

The Washington-based IMF used its influential half-yearly fiscal monitor to demolish the argument that economic growth would suffer if governments in advanced Western countries forced the top 1% of earners to pay more tax.

The IMF said tax theory suggested there should be “significantly higher” tax rates for those on higher incomes but the argument against doing so was that hitting the rich would be bad for growth.

But the influential global institution said: “Empirical results do not support this argument, at least for levels of progressivity that are not excessive.” The IMF added that different types of wealth taxes might also be considered.



One thing I've seen from talking to and reading pieces by people on both the left and the right is the need for a streamlined, simplified tax system that would be easier and faster for businesses and individuals to fill out while also potentially generating more revenue by eliminating a lot of inefficiencies and loopholes. Here's former Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page:

Quote:

The need for broad-based tax reform in Canada has been building for the past few decades. Budgetary revenues relative to the size of the economy have fallen dramatically, reducing the capacity of governments at all levels to pay for programs and services in the face of aging demographics. Budgetary deficits have returned. Debt is piling up. The federal fiscal plan to manage the debt increase is devoid of strong commitments—In 2015, the Liberals campaigned on stimulative deficits of $10 billion a year over three years, with a return to balance in 2019. Deficit spending continues, with balance nowhere in sight.

Individuals and corporations have gotten used to tax reductions of all types. A succession of governments has become accustomed to delivering benefits to constituents through special programs called tax expenditures (e.g., accelerated capital cost allowances, charitable donations, tool credits, etc.). Every budget in recent years adds layers of complexity for taxpayers. Layer cakes are tasty and fun to look at. This is not the case with our tax code.

Similarly, concerns have been building about Canada’s relatively low productivity growth and its implications for our future standard of living. It is a good question to ask if we can better use the tax system to support growth and job creation. What if we reduced income taxes and payroll taxes and increased consumption taxes? Could we raise labour force participation rates? Could we increase investment? Similarly, countries everywhere are scratching their heads trying to find effective taxation systems for corporations and individuals in a world economy seemingly without borders. How big is the tax gap? How do we reduce tax avoidance?



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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:08 pm
 


rickc wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
Might want to call Governor Brownback down in Kansas and ask how that worked out for them.


You are being disingenuous. You post a link where Kenney states where he wants to cut business taxes to encourage businesses to invest in Alberta. You than show us a video designed to highlight the pitfalls of lowering the taxes on business. That video clearly shows that not only did Kansas lower taxes on business, but they completely eliminated them on thousands of businesses, and lowered the income tax rates for everyone as well. Its apples and oranges. There is a huge difference in lowering taxes on business to get them to come invest, and lowering or eliminating all your state revenue streams except sales taxes and DMV fees. Huge difference. Kansas should have just lowered taxes on new businesses that promise to employ a certain amount of people to see if it worked or not. Maybe it works,maybe it don't. Its worth a shot.

Painting the picture that lowering taxes on business is always a losing proposition is just wrong. Lets look at Ireland from that same time frame.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/05/14/ ... -happened/
Foreign companies pay 80% of Irish corporate income tax, and employ 25% of the work force. The Irish economy grew by 26.3% in 2015 due to foreign investment. What was Canada doing in 2015? You were sliding into recession by the end of the year because of lower oil prices. One very important Province slowed down, and dragged the entire county's economy into recession. One very important Province where the majority of jobs are created by foreign companies. So I can see why Kenney is very interested in keeping the foreign money flowing in. He might want to start attracting companies involved in manufacturing though. Big oil is moving out. No sense in procuring something when you can't get it to market. Its like setting up a fish market in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. Nothing Kenney can do about that. He is on the right track, wrong industry.



No there’s nothing disingenuous. You must have missed the part in the video where they clearly said cutting/eliminating taxes on business did NOTHING to bring in or grow businesses in Kansas. Why? Because as the video states and as jared points out in his post, there’s a lot more involved in business investment decisions than just tax rates.

To the second part of your post, as a point of fact Canada didn’t “slide into recession”. Canada has not been in a recession since July 23, 2009. Alberta’s oil-based recession was it’s own and didn’t drag the rest of the country down as you claim.

The Ireland meme is well worn but the truth is Ireland was one if the hardest hit in Europe after the Great Recession


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.irishti ... 3fmode=amp


And this chart clearly suggests that it was joining the European Single Market

Image


https://www.taxjustice.net/2015/03/12/d ... tic-tiger/


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:39 pm
 


The fact of the matter is that tax cuts for businesses CAN work. There is plenty of proof of that. Tax cuts are not the only consideration though. People have to actually want to live where the tax cuts are being proposed. I would not want to live where women have to be covered from head to toe, and where alcohol is illegal. I do not care how cheap it is to do business there, I would have no desire to live there. The video in this thread was about Kansas. Have you ever met anyone that wanted to go to Kansas? I have not. It may be a wonderful place. I do not know, and I do not care to find out. Its not my cup of tea. Alberta has had no problem getting people to relocate there. I would have the stampede. I would have world class fishing and hunting. I would be surrounded by people that think the same way that I do. I do not have that where I live now. Hell yeah I would set up a shop in Alberta if I had the means to do so. I do not. Tax cuts or the lack thereof are not the problem in Alberta. The low cost of crude oil and the lack of pipelines are what is killing Alberta.

I say take a page out of Pittsburgh's book. They used to be known as steel city. Their football team is called the steelers. Today there ate no steel mills left in the city of Pittsburgh. They rolled with the punch and converted to high tech industry. There is more than oil in Alberta. Obviously the federal government has no real desire to help Alberta get their oil to market. That is a shame. It is not the end of the world. The people of Alberta are a hardy lot. I say that Kenney is barking up the right tree. Offer a very good tax reduction package for businesses relocating from Ontario and Quebec, and double (or triple) the package for businesses relocating from B.C. Tit for tat if you will. Most businesses are all about the bottom line. They want to make money. They also want a hard working reliable population that shows up on time every day, and gives a full days work for a full days pay. Alberta has that in spades. This plan could work if they concentrate on non oil producing business.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:41 pm
 


If tax cuts for business lead to job retention then they serve their purpose by keeping that many more people off of social assistance.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:08 am
 


rickc wrote:
They rolled with the punch and converted to high tech industry. There is more than oil in Alberta.

. . .

They also want a hard working reliable population that shows up on time every day, and gives a full days work for a full days pay. Alberta has that in spades. This plan could work if they concentrate on non oil producing business.


Which is exactly what Racheal Notley was trying to do - diversify the economy. But the hate and rhetoric for her got turned up to 11, and there was no stopping it. So now, we regress.

We'll see how bad Kenney is, shortly. Speech from the Throne is next Tuesday.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:23 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
rickc wrote:
What was Canada doing in 2015? You were sliding into recession by the end of the year because of lower oil prices. One very important Province slowed down, and dragged the entire county's economy into recession. One very important Province where the majority of jobs are created by foreign companies. So I can see why Kenney is very interested in keeping the foreign money flowing in. He might want to start attracting companies involved in manufacturing though. Big oil is moving out. No sense in procuring something when you can't get it to market. Its like setting up a fish market in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. Nothing Kenney can do about that. He is on the right track, wrong industry.


Lowering taxes, and revenue is just Kenney's first step. He's also got a 'focus group' going through all provincial expenses, with the plan to reduce spending. There is also a rumour he's going for a 5% salary reduction in the civil service.

There was another Premier who did these things. Ralph Klein. Know how that turned out? He turned a short term down slide it the economy into a prolonged recession.

Yay. :|


Edit: And we are still trying to catch up to the infrastructure deficit Klein created in road repair, building and maintaining schools, sewers and electrical lines - 20 years on.

You may not speak ill of St. Ralph. Things are perfect in Alberta, we have enough schools for all the children, we have enough hospital beds for all the sick, our hospital benefit cards are cutting edge. We have roads that are perfect. Our Driver's license has a dinosaur on it, St. Ralph did all this for us.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:30 am
 


My drivers' license has the word 'Donor' on it. The company I work for did this for us. ;)

https://ingeniousawards.ca/wp-content/u ... splant.pdf

https://www.cgi.com/canada/en/Alberta-H ... ious-Award


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:49 am
 


I'll not be a donor. For the following reasons:
1. I drink too much for my Liver or Kidneys to be of any benefit to others
2. I have no heart
3. I smoke so, my blackened lungs will never help another
4. My other organs are mine
5. Population control. (see point 2, if you are wondering how I can say this)
6. I don't like people near enough to give them anything. Especially parts of my body.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:01 am
 


I don't care what they do with my meat sack when I'm done with it. Leave it in the forest for the coyotes for all I care. If some of my parts will help someone else, go for it. Poor bastard who gets this puss as a face transplant though.


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