[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

So making things more expensive, and then giving money back will somehow, magically reduce consumption? What kind of ass-backwards pageantry is that?

It moves the financial burden on to the industrial polluters, who don't get the tax back.

The old Alberta tax used the revenue to pay for green tech and more city transit.

[FieryVulpine]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

The old Alberta tax used the revenue to pay for green tech and more city transit.

Including the coincidentally-named Green Line for Calgary's LRT, if I'm not mistaken.

[DrCaleb]

Yup. It'll be fun to watch the UCP cut funding for the Edmonton South line, and leave all the new overhead rail trusses sit empty for years to come, now that the Carbon tax isn't paying for it.

[Thanos]

The urban transit plans need to be scaled back in both cities. Both the demand for them as well as the tax base to finance the builds both collapsed due to the economic meltdown. They're a luxury now that can't be afforded. Don't need a $2 billion LRT scheme for a downtown Calgary core that's effectively a ghost town where they're now almost giving away parking spots for free.

[DrCaleb]

You'll need it in 2 years, when the UCP economic giants swoop in to save the day!

[llama66]

Actually, they've begun to convert some Office Buildings into Apartments. The Cube and the historic Barron Building amongst them.

[Prof_Chomsky]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

So how about instead of banning straws, we work with the rest of the G12 and impose hefty environmental tariffs on these polluters that wind up undercutting our jobs/factories by destroying the environment?

Like, a carbon tax?

No, I mean like a pollution tax.
If you produce steel more cheaply than us, solely because you use coal and destroy the planet you get a 100% environmental tariff.
If you throw all your plastic shit into the river instead of the garbage, we'll gladly go out to the pacific, pick it all up, and recycle it. Then transfer the cost back to China, Indonesia, and wherever else in the form of tariffs.

Seriously, I'm all for reducing Canada's waste and plastic, but we could seriously fix the planet by punitive tariffs and embargo's. I mean, what is truly more dangerous now? Iran's nuclear reactor, or, our entire planet dying?

[llama66]

Your solution sounds too logical. Stop it.

[Thanos]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

No, I mean like a pollution tax.
If you produce steel more cheaply than us, solely because you use coal and destroy the planet you get a 100% environmental tariff.
If you throw all your plastic shit into the river instead of the garbage, we'll gladly go out to the pacific, pick it all up, and recycle it. Then transfer the cost back to China, Indonesia, and wherever else in the form of tariffs.

Seriously, I'm all for reducing Canada's waste and plastic, but we could seriously fix the planet by punitive tariffs and embargo's. I mean, what is truly more dangerous now? Iran's nuclear reactor, or, our entire planet dying?

Sounds like you're one of those commies who thinks group interest and collective good is more important than increasing shareholder & investor value.

Good ideas and unfortunately not a single one of them will ever happen.

[DrCaleb]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

So how about instead of banning straws, we work with the rest of the G12 and impose hefty environmental tariffs on these polluters that wind up undercutting our jobs/factories by destroying the environment?

Like, a carbon tax?

No, I mean like a pollution tax.

What do you think a Carbon Tax is?

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

If you throw all your plastic shit into the river instead of the garbage, we'll gladly go out to the pacific, pick it all up, and recycle it. Then transfer the cost back to China, Indonesia, and wherever else in the form of tariffs.

It's our plastic, we sent it there through proxies. Why not reduce the need here, then we don't need to export it to places that don't want it?

Also - that's not the way tariffs work. Tariffs are a tax on imports, paid by the consumer. You can't 'transfer the costs to China' on imports to Canada.

[N_Fiddledog]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

What do you think a Carbon Tax is?

It's a tax on air. It's feed for the trough. Power for the power-brokers. A path to globalism. But no. It's no kind of "pollution" tax, unless your aim is to tax a modified definition of a word. And nothing gets "cleaner" as a result of it.

[bootlegga]

llama66 llama66:

Robbing me of my money to save me is a retarded idea.

What do you think a speeding ticket is? It's a fine to correct bad behaviour.

Same with a carbon tax.

Want to drive a Dodge Ram 3500 HD and guzzle gas? Go right ahead, you'll pay more than the guy driving a Civic because you're creating way more air pollution than he is. Existing fuel taxes were implemented to build roads and infrastructure for vehicles, not reduce emissions, which is why we need another tax to reduce consumption of non-renewables.

Frankly, the only thing that bothered me about the NDP carbon tax was that 30-40% of it went to rebates (i.e. income re-distribution). I would have been fine if it was only for those below the poverty line, but why does someone earning $40,000 deserve any sort of rebate for carbon taxes? If climate change is a societal issue, then society should pay for it, not just the top 40%.

[llama66]

A speeding ticket is usually leads to a summary conviction and therefore subject to due process and thus I can appeal. This is a presumption of guilt (by your analogy) I've been convicted without judge or jury.

I don't drive, I walk. So what am I guilty of praytell? Why am I being dinged for carbon tax? Why do you think I should accept my cost of living going up because of carbon taxes?

[stratos]

llama66 llama66:

A speeding ticket is usually leads to a summary conviction and therefore subject to due process and thus I can appeal. This is a presumption of guilt (by your analogy) I've been convicted without judge or jury.

I don't drive, I walk. So what am I guilty of praytell? Why am I being dinged for carbon tax? Why do you think I should accept my cost of living going up because of carbon taxes?

Do you fart? Heck do you breath? If so you are a plague to this earth and causing environmental harm. Thus you shall be taxed as a punishment.

[llama66]

Actually, I identify as a robot. ergo, I do not breathe. I cycle air through my built in HEPA filters