[llama66]

There are only two biologic genders. It's binary. You are either a 1 or a 0. The rest is psychological. If you *Identify* as something, that means this is how YOU see YOURSELF; its not necessarily what you actually are.

[stratos]

$1:

Science shows us there are multiple combinations beyond those two.

Then from now on I want to see rage come from any finding of some ancient bones at some arkeological site when they say it's male or female bones. When police find a body they state it's male or female. Dam it man the science should tell us what gender identity the person had while living.

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

There are only two biologic genders. It's binary. You are either a 1 or a 0. The rest is psychological. If you *Identify* as something, that means this is how YOU see YOURSELF; its not necessarily what you actually are.

Gender is defined by chromosomes. In humans, two X chromosomes means 'female' and they have a 'vagina' and 'mammary glands', and X and a Y chromosome means 'male' and they have a 'penis' and 'testicles'.

Except, you can have a person with a single X chromosome. Or with XXY. Or with XYY. Or XXYY. XXX? XXXX? XXXXX?

What 'gender' are these people? None of these has anything to do with how one 'self identifies', it's genetic. What if you are born with both a vagina and penis? How should that person identify? What if they have a vagina, and testicles?

Then we are finding out about the 'male' brain and 'female' brain. What if someone with an XY set of chromosomes is born with the female brain that makes female hormones in a male body?

The problem is with societies binary definitions of gender. Nature is vastly more complex than this.

[DrCaleb]

stratos stratos:

$1:

Science shows us there are multiple combinations beyond those two.

Then from now on I want to see rage come from any finding of some ancient bones at some arkeological site when they say it's male or female bones. When police find a body they state it's male or female. Dam it man the science should tell us what gender identity the person had while living.

How?

DNA degrades quickly. How do you determine that from bones?

[Tricks]

llama66 llama66:

There are only two biologic genders. It's binary. You are either a 1 or a 0. The rest is psychological. If you *Identify* as something, that means this is how YOU see YOURSELF; its not necessarily what you actually are.

Biological sexes. Gender is psychological, in everyone. You seeing yourself as a male is still psychological.

[Tricks]

Gotta stop conflating biological sex with gender. Two different things chaps.

[stratos]

$1:

Gender is psychological,

So it is a mental thing. I'm not going to say they are all crazy or confused or what ever people want to say about this. Just know because someone thinks something doesn't always make it true. Yet isn't it an opinion then. I think I am something there for I am. I fell like I am something there for I must be. As pointed out Mankind used to think the moon was made of cheese well then OMG Science must agree with them because they actually thought it was.

[DrCaleb]

stratos stratos:

$1:

Gender is psychological,

So it is a mental thing. I'm not going to say they are all crazy or confused or what ever people want to say about this. Just know because someone thinks something doesn't always make it true. Yet isn't it an opinion then. I think I am something there for I am. I fell like I am something there for I must be. As pointed out Mankind used to think the moon was made of cheese well then OMG Science must agree with them because they actually thought it was.

Not the key takeaway there. Believing in something does not make it true. The moon is not cheese just because people think it is.

And there are not only two genders just because people think there are supposed to be.

[Tricks]

stratos stratos:

So it is a mental thing. I'm not going to say they are all crazy or confused or what ever people want to say about this. Just know because someone thinks something doesn't always make it true.

Your identifying as a straight male is psychological as well. Why is what you say more true than someone who is gay or identifies and a different gender?

[llama66]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

llama66 llama66:

There are only two biologic genders. It's binary. You are either a 1 or a 0. The rest is psychological. If you *Identify* as something, that means this is how YOU see YOURSELF; its not necessarily what you actually are.

Gender is defined by chromosomes. In humans, two X chromosomes means 'female' and they have a 'vagina' and 'mammary glands', and X and a Y chromosome means 'male' and they have a 'penis' and 'testicles'.

Except, you can have a person with a single X chromosome. Or with XXY. Or with XYY. Or XXYY. XXX? XXXX? XXXXX?

What 'gender' are these people? None of these has anything to do with how one 'self identifies', it's genetic. What if you are born with both a vagina and penis? How should that person identify? What if they have a vagina, and testicles?

Then we are finding out about the 'male' brain and 'female' brain. What if someone with an XY set of chromosomes is born with the female brain that makes female hormones in a male body?

The problem is with societies binary definitions of gender. Nature is vastly more complex than this.

You are talking about a fraction of a percent of the total population. Basically these are mutations, much like I have blue eyes. And really, considering we only have 23 pair of chromosomes (the pair determining your sex being pair 23) XXYY or XXXX or any variation thereof would be a mutation, because you are alluding that you'd have 24 pair of chromosomes for a total of 48.

[llama66]

$1:

Not the key takeaway there. Believing in something does not make it true. The moon is not cheese just because people think it is.

And there are not only two genders just because people think there are supposed to be.

The key here is understanding we all live in our own realities. These realities are shaped by our own experiences and perceptions . My belief is people have confused biological gender with psychological gender. If we're to "use science" then True Transgender persons would comprise 0.003448% of the total population. (persons with 48 chromosomes have a birthrate of about 1 in 18,000-40,000, so I took the median of the two and assumed a birth rate of 1 in 29,000).

I don't care, but it does bother me that something that "affects"(?) only 127576 people in Canada is the issue it is. Issues like Poverty, Defense, Health Care, Immigration, and Justice should be more important. However Transgender rights seem to be the largest and most important social issue we're dealing with.

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

llama66 llama66:

There are only two biologic genders. It's binary. You are either a 1 or a 0. The rest is psychological. If you *Identify* as something, that means this is how YOU see YOURSELF; its not necessarily what you actually are.

Gender is defined by chromosomes. In humans, two X chromosomes means 'female' and they have a 'vagina' and 'mammary glands', and X and a Y chromosome means 'male' and they have a 'penis' and 'testicles'.

Except, you can have a person with a single X chromosome. Or with XXY. Or with XYY. Or XXYY. XXX? XXXX? XXXXX?

What 'gender' are these people? None of these has anything to do with how one 'self identifies', it's genetic. What if you are born with both a vagina and penis? How should that person identify? What if they have a vagina, and testicles?

Then we are finding out about the 'male' brain and 'female' brain. What if someone with an XY set of chromosomes is born with the female brain that makes female hormones in a male body?

The problem is with societies binary definitions of gender. Nature is vastly more complex than this.

You are talking about a fraction of a percent of the total population. Basically these are mutations, much like I have blue eyes. And really, considering we only have 23 pair of chromosomes (the pair determining your sex being pair 23) XXYY or XXXX or any variation thereof would be a mutation, because you are alluding that you'd have 24 pair of chromosomes for a total of 48.

It may be a small percentage of the population, but that doesn't mean the issue isn't important to them. If we want a truly inclusive society, then it has to include the fringes. Does it cost me anything to let a person be who they want to be or who they are? Nope.

llama66 llama66:

I don't care, but it does bother me that something that "affects"(?) only 127576 people in Canada is the issue it is. Issues like Poverty, Defense, Health Care, Immigration, and Justice should be more important. However Transgender rights seem to be the largest and most important social issue we're dealing with.

I don't think it's the most important, by far. But inclusiveness affects (!) more than just gender based issues. It affects all sorts of minorities. Being more inclusive affects them as well. Being more inclusive progresses society in general.

Baby steps!

[llama66]

Here's the thing, Trans-rights has always been protected in the CCRF.

$1:

Equality before and under law and equal protection and benefit of law
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Marginal note:Affirmative action programs
(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability. (84)

I don't understand why separate laws need to be written to "further protect" them... History has shown again and again that once a group separate themselves from "the heard", they become so much easier to target.

I dunno. Maybe I don't understand this shit anymore.

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

Here's the thing, Trans-rights has always been protected in the CCRF.

$1:

Equality before and under law and equal protection and benefit of law
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Marginal note:Affirmative action programs
(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability. (84)

I don't understand why separate laws need to be written to "further protect" them... History has shown again and again that once a group separate themselves from "the heard", they become so much easier to target.

I dunno. Maybe I don't understand this shit anymore.

I don't think this is about protecting them, it's about making sure that sports competitions are fair, and that no one is advantaged or disadvantaged because of natural abilities.

[stratos]

$1:

I dunno. Maybe I don't understand this shit anymore.

I kind of look at it from this point. People have told kids they are special, rules don't apply to them unless mom and dad say they do. Kids get older think they know better then the parents. Still think they are special because, well everyone has told them they are. Find out that they are not special but like the majority. Kids rebel yet demand that they are special so find a way to insist you treat them as special. No rules apply to them but the rules that they want to make up or agree with. Thus we have what we do at this time.