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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:44 pm
 


Title: Exclusive: Maxime Bernier wants to abolish the Indian Act and build a border fence
Category: Political
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2019-09-26 12:32:06
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:44 pm
 


Do first nation people want the Indian Act removed?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:55 pm
 


Send them all back to India! :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:59 pm
 


stratos wrote:
Do first nation people want the Indian Act removed?


To my understanding, not if it means abolishing the Treaties and their distinct rights underneath it, which are so fundamentally tied to their identities. As Ovide Mercredi put it, Indigenous people would prefer to live under the Indian Act rather than get rid of something that's so critically important to who they are. I have never seen anything to contradict him.

The thing is that Pierre Trudeau tried this 50 years ago and failed. Unfortunately, Harold Cardinal's book "The Unjust Society" reflected-and still reflects-all too well why that approach just won't work, and why the Natives will never, ever consent to it.

Non-Native people might be sick of hearing about this, but Native people are equally sick of having to make the same point over and over and over and over again-the Treaties were never meant to assimilate Indigenous people and identities. The Natives have never consented to it. Assimilation would simply complete the work of the Indian Act. This issue isn't going to go away until we recognize this fact. We tried forcible assimilation, and it led directly to the residential schools, the Sixties Scoop, the alcoholism, social dysfunction, and the problems on reserves.

That said, I'm not necessarily too worried about Maxime Bernier. He's arguably too stupid to be an effective political leader, particularly when the same libertarians who initially supported him are being drummed out of the People's Party for complaining about the racists he's letting into the party. Justin Trudeau is being accused of kicking out candidates for not playing up his feminist credentials...and Bernier is accused of the same thing to candidates complaining about racists infiltrating the PPC.

Frankly, Bernier's in a race to save his own political skin. Last I heard, he was neck and neck with his Conservative opponent, and I can only imagine how the good people of Beauce feel about Bernier's seemingly endless clown show. If he loses his own seat come October, it won't surprise me at all.

I always thought Bernier was a fool, and it would just confirm what I thought all along.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:34 pm
 


How many chances in hell does Max have in winning anything in the next election?



I'll give you a hint... zero, the answer is zero. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:48 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Send them all back to India! :lol:

You would have to be a big Bollywood fan to enjoy the Indian Act


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:50 pm
 


Actually, I'm surprised that some people on CKA support this idea that Maxi Pads on about the treaties. I mean really, PET was all for eliminating the treaties, so they should be all in favour of keeping them.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:08 pm
 


stratos wrote:
Do first nation people CHIEFS want the Indian Act removed?



FTFY




JaredMilne wrote:
The thing is that Pierre Trudeau tried this 50 years ago and failed. U



No, he stopped the idea at the last minute.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:07 am
 


JaredMilne wrote:
stratos wrote:
Do first nation people want the Indian Act removed?


To my understanding, not if it means abolishing the Treaties and their distinct rights underneath it, which are so fundamentally tied to their identities. As Ovide Mercredi put it, Indigenous people would prefer to live under the Indian Act rather than get rid of something that's so critically important to who they are. I have never seen anything to contradict him.

The thing is that Pierre Trudeau tried this 50 years ago and failed. Unfortunately, Harold Cardinal's book "The Unjust Society" reflected-and still reflects-all too well why that approach just won't work, and why the Natives will never, ever consent to it.

Non-Native people might be sick of hearing about this, but Native people are equally sick of having to make the same point over and over and over and over again-the Treaties were never meant to assimilate Indigenous people and identities. The Natives have never consented to it. Assimilation would simply complete the work of the Indian Act. This issue isn't going to go away until we recognize this fact. We tried forcible assimilation, and it led directly to the residential schools, the Sixties Scoop, the alcoholism, social dysfunction, and the problems on reserves.

That said, I'm not necessarily too worried about Maxime Bernier. He's arguably too stupid to be an effective political leader, particularly when the same libertarians who initially supported him are being drummed out of the People's Party for complaining about the racists he's letting into the party. Justin Trudeau is being accused of kicking out candidates for not playing up his feminist credentials...and Bernier is accused of the same thing to candidates complaining about racists infiltrating the PPC.

Frankly, Bernier's in a race to save his own political skin. Last I heard, he was neck and neck with his Conservative opponent, and I can only imagine how the good people of Beauce feel about Bernier's seemingly endless clown show. If he loses his own seat come October, it won't surprise me at all.

I always thought Bernier was a fool, and it would just confirm what I thought all along.


Thanks that was a very good explanation. [B-o]


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:39 am
 


JaredMilne wrote:
Non-Native people might be sick of hearing about this, but Native people are equally sick of having to make the same point over and over and over and over again-the Treaties were never meant to assimilate Indigenous people and identities. The Natives have never consented to it. Assimilation would simply complete the work of the Indian Act. This issue isn't going to go away until we recognize this fact. We tried forcible assimilation, and it led directly to the residential schools, the Sixties Scoop, the alcoholism, social dysfunction, and the problems on reserves.

I know that what I am about to say does not apply to all native bands as believing that all natives are a monolithic groups is the same as assuming that Europeans/Asians/Africans are one group, but some bands hold paradoxical belief systems, or at lest that's how I see it. It appears that some want to both preserve a centuries-old way of life and enjoy the fruits of a technologically advanced culture. Similarly these same groups want non-natives to give their own mysticism (i.e. a spiritual connection to the land) the same validity as the scientific method when considering projects such as pipelines. It is largely unworkable in the long term. Add in the fact that we have six hundred groups that claim sovereignty, it pretty much guarantees that Canada will remain dysfunctional as even these groups cannot agree on everything, much less agree with the "settlers."

My impression has been that there are many bands so fixated on an idealized pre-contact past and a strong desire to return to that. However, the genie is out of the bottle and we--the descendants of those settlers--are not going anywhere. This obsession with the past has largely robbed them of a future. That is not to say they should abandon their culture. If Canada truly believes in multiculturalism there should be a way to preserve their customs, language, etc. into the wider culture.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:12 am
 


I'm pro-abolishment; only because I believe it creates and perpetuates a two tier citizenship scheme.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:35 am
 


yup in Canada we actively pay people to be different..


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:47 am
 


JaredMilne wrote:
The thing is that Pierre Trudeau tried this 50 years ago and failed. U


No, he stopped the idea at the last minute.[/quote]

Because of determined Indigenous activism and his realization that it was politically unfeasible. Sounds like good political sense to me.

FieryVulpine wrote:
I know that what I am about to say does not apply to all native bands as believing that all natives are a monolithic groups is the same as assuming that Europeans/Asians/Africans are one group, but some bands hold paradoxical belief systems, or at lest that's how I see it. It appears that some want to both preserve a centuries-old way of life and enjoy the fruits of a technologically advanced culture. Similarly these same groups want non-natives to give their own mysticism (i.e. a spiritual connection to the land) the same validity as the scientific method when considering projects such as pipelines. It is largely unworkable in the long term. Add in the fact that we have six hundred groups that claim sovereignty, it pretty much guarantees that Canada will remain dysfunctional as even these groups cannot agree on everything, much less agree with the "settlers."

My impression has been that there are many bands so fixated on an idealized pre-contact past and a strong desire to return to that. However, the genie is out of the bottle and we--the descendants of those settlers--are not going anywhere. This obsession with the past has largely robbed them of a future. That is not to say they should abandon their culture. If Canada truly believes in multiculturalism there should be a way to preserve their customs, language, etc. into the wider culture.


Okay, this is an understandable point of view.

Like any other culture, Indigenous ones can grow and change to accommodate new technologies in their lifestyles. As I understand, the Wet'su'weten people in northwestern B.C. are doing just that with their 'small houses' and the encampments they've set up-which were going on long before TransMountain X, if I recall correctly. That's just one example, as people in the Northern territories (Yukon, NWT and Nunavut) use modern tools like guns and snowmobiles along with traditional traplines.

If you've seen TV shows like "Mountain Men" on the History channel, or other examples of people trying to live off the grid, it's the same thing with Natives who've been doing the same thing for centuries. The politics of the "Duck Dynasty" guys or the "Swamp People" might be very different from the Natives', but their goals could be seen as similar. Another example in B.C. came from Natives in the early 20th century who had little incentive to work in the sawmills for low wages when they could get their food just as easily by hunting for it.

As for the use of their 'mysticism', I'd have to dig up the examples again but I seem to recall instances of how Indigenous peoples' traditional knowledge, expressed as their connection to the land, could offer similar insights as analysis from the likes of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. It'd be no different than getting the feedback from non-Native farmers and hunters on pipeline development in their neighbourhoods-they have local knowledge that can confirm what the scientists are saying.

There's arguably more commonalities between what Native people living in more rural areas desire and what their non-Native neighbours desire than many people think.

As for the 600 individual bands each claiming sovereignty, that's not quite the case. The Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples suggested that many of these reserve communities might combine into larger communities and those would be the self-governing entities. Keep in mind many of those 600 First Nations communities share similar languages and beliefs-many of the First Nations around the Edmonton area would all share a Cree background. Writers like Georges Erasmus, George and Arthur Manuel, Ron Derrickson and Harold Cardinal have all talked about how such Indigenous nations could become net contributors to the Canadian economy.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:57 am
 


uwish wrote:
yup in Canada we actively pay people to be different..


Oh man I need to move there then. I'm VERY different 8O


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:04 pm
 


We're all different.


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