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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:43 am
 


FieryVulpine wrote:
Thanos wrote:
And BTW there's more heavy fuel-consumption vehicle (aka pickups and SUVs) being sold per capita these days in southern Ontario and Quebec than there is in the West. Kind of irresponsible for them to be spending their money on luxuries, eh, instead of saving for a rainy day, 'nomesayin'. Guess they'll have to lose it all before they learn.

A very interesting observation as Canadians hold the highest consumer debt of all G7 nations. It is also imperative to look at Ontario who holds the highest sub-sovereign debt at three times the debt of California (the most indebted state in the Union) with only a third of the population. Then there is are the massive deficits from Trudeau's spending sprees at are going to make his old man look like Ebenezer Scrooge. Don't expect a new Paul Martin to rise for Austerity 2.0: Slash Harder. I imagine Thanos and some of the older members to have a few words about the 1990s as I was in grade school back then and was paying more attention to Power Rangers than federal budgets.

Canadians in the central portion of the nation love to live high on the hog, but all bills come due some day and I suspect the non-Alberta parts of this country are one recession away from losing everything and it will be glorious to witness.


[B-o]


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:59 am
 


I don't want to see any other Canadians suffer that way. Just because we get a lot of that crap aimed at us from some of them doesn't make it right. All I want is to be treated equally and have the concerns out here taken seriously instead of sloughed off as being unimportant, or that we somehow deserved it. Not being regarded as some kind of enemy just because they don't like what we do for a living should be the least thing we have to expect, especially when they've profited themselves so massively from what we do here to contribute to the system.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:15 pm
 


I will paraphrase Batman from Batman Begins, "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."

Unless they are a blood relation or friend, I find it increasingly impossible to give more than two shits about the denizens of British Columbia and Central Canada. If you act like self-righteous assholes, then expected to be treated as such in your hour of need. for example, I would not lift a finger to help a Vancouverite if an 8.0 quake hits the city because they never rose above their smug pettiness nor have they demonstrated any ability to do so. Similarly, I have not felt one ounce of empathy for the workers laid off when GM closed their Oshawa plant nor will I show any for those affected by potential layoffs at Bombardier because of Easterners' spiteful and petty nature. Desire only factors insofar as much I want to help them and I don't because I know backstabbing is in their nature similar to certain arthropod from a certain fable. British Columbians, Ontarians, and Quebecois are--frankly--unworthy of compassion, respect, or loyalty.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:17 pm
 


And because we have friends and relatives all over, we don't like to stereotype people either. But the ignorant redneck assholes gripe so loud they do make that difficult.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:51 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
And yet we always get the sneering "why don't Albertans stop voting Conservative" from those elsewhere who keep voting Liberal through thick-and-thin. Or, if they're in a mood for a change, go and vote for an increasingly radical and demented federal NDP. I guess it's in the Canadian character to be completely blind to their other fingers pointing back at themselves while they're exuberantly point one in our faces. Yeah, right. :roll:


Yeah, I'm going to have to call bullshit on this - the Maritimes is far more willing to vote in other parties than Alberta, which typically sends 90+% Conservative MPs to Ottawa.

Here's the numbers from 2000 in the four Maritime provinces:

19 Liberals
9 PCs
4 NDP

That's 9 out of 32 (almost 1/3) of the seats going to conservatives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Cana ... l_election

2004:

22 Liberals
5 CPCs
3 NDP


2006:

20 Liberals
9 CPCs
3 NDP


2008:

17 Liberals
10 CPCs
3 NDP
1 Other

2011:

12 Liberals
14 CPCs
6 NDP

Wow, that's almost 50% of MPs from the region being CPC - can you ever imagine Alberta sending 50% of its MPs to Ottawa as Liberals?

2015:

32 Liberals
0 PCs
0 NDP

2019:

26 Liberals
4 CPCs
1 Green

As you can see, with the exception of the last two elections, the Maritimes has sent about 1/3 of MPs to Ottawa as conservatives over the past 20 years, so it's nowhere near Alberta in supporting a single party constantly no matter what happens.

In my lifetime, Alberta has never sent more than 5 non-conservative MPs to office in one election, while in the same time, on average, about 1/3 of Maritimers has been represented by conservatives (PC or CPC).

For shits and giggles, I went back to see if Alberta ever sent a majority of Liberal MPs to Ottawa, and sure enough they did it once, back in 1911 under Wilfred Laurier!

From the 1930s on, Alberta has voted almost entirely conservative, first the old Social Credit Party in the 1930s, then switching to the PCs under Diefenbaker.

So if you want to call anyone region of the country out for voting en masse for one party, rain or shine, you need to call out Alberta, not the Maritimes.

Edit for spelling/calculation


Last edited by bootlegga on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:06 pm
 


I won't argue numbers with you, that would be pointless. Not gonna dispute a provable historical record.

I will ask one question though, and believe me this is not coming from a Conservative member or active supporter, just someone who votes for them because the alternative is too awful to contemplate. Just answer me this in your own opinion - what have the Liberals or the federal NDP ever done for us in the last forty years to justify Albertans voting for them?

We've had Liberal MP's here and there since the 1990's. Aside from Landslide Annie succeeding in getting the military base transferred from Calgary to her riding in Edmonton, what else have Alberta Liberal MP's done. That fellow from Edmonton in the last government was a cabinet minister and it didn't help at all in stopping Trudeau on bills C-48 or 69. When Albertans are elected to be MP's in a Liberal government we get steamrolled. When they're not elected to be MP's in a Liberal government we still get steamrolled. What's the point in going with them when it doesn't make a damn bit of difference for us? :?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:45 pm
 


FieryVulpine wrote:
I will paraphrase Batman from Batman Begins, "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."

Unless they are a blood relation or friend, I find it increasingly impossible to give more than two shits about the denizens of British Columbia and Central Canada. If you act like self-righteous assholes, then expected to be treated as such in your hour of need. for example, I would not lift a finger to help a Vancouverite if an 8.0 quake hits the city because they never rose above their smug pettiness nor have they demonstrated any ability to do so. Similarly, I have not felt one ounce of empathy for the workers laid off when GM closed their Oshawa plant nor will I show any for those affected by potential layoffs at Bombardier because of Easterners' spiteful and petty nature. Desire only factors insofar as much I want to help them and I don't because I know backstabbing is in their nature similar to certain arthropod from a certain fable. British Columbians, Ontarians, and Quebecois are--frankly--unworthy of compassion, respect, or loyalty.

Good to know. :|


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:41 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
I won't argue numbers with you, that would be pointless. Not gonna dispute a provable historical record.

I will ask one question though, and believe me this is not coming from a Conservative member or active supporter, just someone who votes for them because the alternative is too awful to contemplate. Just answer me this in your own opinion - what have the Liberals or the federal NDP ever done for us in the last forty years to justify Albertans voting for them?

We've had Liberal MP's here and there since the 1990's. Aside from Landslide Annie succeeding in getting the military base transferred from Calgary to her riding in Edmonton, what else have Alberta Liberal MP's done. That fellow from Edmonton in the last government was a cabinet minister and it didn't help at all in stopping Trudeau on bills C-48 or 69. When Albertans are elected to be MP's in a Liberal government we get steamrolled. When they're not elected to be MP's in a Liberal government we still get steamrolled. What's the point in going with them when it doesn't make a damn bit of difference for us? :?


I'm not going to dig through thousands of Government of Canada press releases over the past 30 years to find all the specific projects the feds have invested in because it would take forever (assuming that stuff from Chretien's government is even online).

But what I can do is point you to this website on infrastructure investments the current government are making (LRT and electric buses are but one example):

https://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/gmap-g ... x-eng.html

That shows literally hundreds of different projects Ottawa is funding here in Alberta.

I'll also point out the $6.4 billion Ottawa is sending to us to help pay for health care and social programs:

Quote:
In 2019-20, the government of Alberta will receive $6.4 billion through major transfers, including a $4.7-billion Canada Health Transfer and a $1.7-billion Canada Social Transfer. The per capita allocation ($1,465) is exactly the same as Ontario’s.


https://globalnews.ca/news/5113104/albe ... eferendum/

If you want to bitch about equalization, I would suggest you take it up with Harper and Kenney, who drew up the current rules to score votes in Quebec.

Are these amounts more than the Conservatives gave us?

I don't honestly know, but those sums are not inconsequential, and odds are, it's probably about the same as Harper's government ever gave to us, who at the same time neglected Alberta because they knew we'd vote for them pretty much no matter what they did in Ottawa.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:49 pm
 


Strutz wrote:
Good to know. :|

FWIW, it brings me no joy to say that. The last five years have demonstrated how ugly this nation is under the friendly exterior and how its people would rather live a lie than face reality.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:37 am
 


Quote:
FWIW, it brings me no joy to say that. The last five years have demonstrated how ugly this nation is under the friendly exterior and how its people would rather believe a lie than face reality.

FTFY


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:26 pm
 


FieryVulpine wrote:
Strutz wrote:
Good to know. :|

FWIW, it brings me no joy to say that. The last five years have demonstrated how ugly this nation is under the friendly exterior and how its people would rather live a lie than face reality.

And stereotype apparently. The farthest West I've ever lived is Winnipeg. However I have been a continuous and vocal supporter of Alberta's energy industry. To the point I laughed like hell when I heard Warren Buffet pulled out of a Quebec energy project.

Some if us in Central Canada consider ourselves to be Canadians with no use for all of the inter-regional, inter-provincial squabbling.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:11 am
 


But, I guess I have a bit of regionalistic thinking myself. Remember when Blanchet said the BQ would NOT support any fossil fuel projects in Alberta? Yeah, while he was busy invoking the Paris Accord, Quebec was rolling full steam ahead on their own energy project that included, yep, you guessed it, pipelines. That is until Warren Buffet and his billions of dollars pulled out of the project.

I have to admit, I felt a bit of guilty enjoyment over that announcement.


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