[BeaverFever]

Martin15 Martin15:

$1:

And the men who killed him certainly didn’t know anything about his past or where he lived when they killed him.

Wrong.

Bullshit. Where does it say they knew his past, where he lived or who he even was?

$1:

$1:

Therefore the citizens arrest was unlawful as neither criteria were met. Also their justification for the use of force is weak. Even in a legitimate citizens arrest (which this is not) you cannot use force except to prevent a violent felony from occurring, ie you can’t subdue them or attack them just to keep them from getting away.

I'm pretty sure Armad knew the law as well. If it was me, I would whip out my phone,
call the police myself, and say 'dem white boys is gonna kidnap me and lynch me "

Just imagine the $$$ payout after that 'unlawful' citizens arrest gets played out in court. KA-CHING !!

Speaks volumes about trying to grab the shotguns instead.

More of your ridiculous bullshit. Someone is pointing a shotgun at you point blank, you’re probably going to grab it as a natural human reaction. Well maybe you Bonespurs types will collapse in fear and wet yourself but most normal humans will instinctively try to point the weapon away from them.

[Martin15]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Where does it say they knew his past, where he lived or who he even was?

This isn't the only information about this event.
Maybe you should do some more verifying there, Skippy.

$1:

More of your ridiculous bullshit. Someone is pointing a shotgun at you point blank, you’re probably going to grab it as a natural human reaction. Well maybe you Bonespurs types will collapse in fear and wet yourself but most normal humans will instinctively try to point the weapon away from them.

Oh my such an emotional response.

If you try to grab a gun, you deserve what happens next.

[Thanos]

Odds are big that the two Klansmen who did this murder will get off. If the victim grabbed for the gun it shouldn't be too difficult for a cunning enough defense lawyer, and a sympathetic Southern jury, to go for a "stand your ground" argument even though the only one whose life was in any danger was the guy who ended up dead.

It's the Era of Endless Ethical Perversion. Bank on an acquittal.

[rickc]

xerxes xerxes:

Let’s say all of that is true. That still doesn’t mean he had to die. At worst, it’s a property crime; not requiring capital punishment.

And let’s say for arguments sake, that you’re jogging down the road and some good ol’ boys cut you off in truck brandishing guns. Wouldn’t you try to save yourself? Then add into that milieu that this happened in Georgia and the victim was black and his killers are white. You’re right, there a lot of politics behind this story, but it still doesn’t change the fact that a young man is dead for no good reason.

You are right, he did not have to die. It was his bad decision to attempt to pull a loaded shotgun away from someone that got him killed. If I was jogging down the road and some people that I did not know (regardless of color) cut me off brandishing firearms, than I would fight to the death. However if I were fleeing from a home that I attempted to rob because I noticed a camera recording me, and I was intercepted by a cop who had arrested me previously, than I would surrender.........unless I wanted to commit suicide by cop. Perhaps that what this was. Unless you are saying that he has been arrested so many times by so many different cops that he cannot remember them all.

The perp was fleeing from a burglary, we know and can prove that. We have the video. He was being apprehended by someone in law enforcement who had dealings with him before. We know and can prove that as well. He knew that with his record and the 3 strikes law that he was going away for a very long time. Maybe he just was not cut out to handle that kind of time in lockup. I have been locked in my house for a few months and I am ready to give up the ship if it were going to be much longer. Thats with internet and enough booze to float a battleship.

In most cases of police abuse/killings you are going to find that the color blue has a lot more to do with the situation than the colors black or white. Youtube is filled with videos of black cops harassing and abusing black people. They seem harder as they do not want to appear weak in front of their white coworkers. The black suspect calls them a sellout or an Uncle Tom, and things go off the rails real fast.

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

If I was in a place like backwoods Georgia, or any other Southern state for that matter, the first thing I would have done would have been to use the blessed 2nd Amendment to arm myself for protection. And I would have specifically done it entirely due to the way the good ol' boys have been behaving for the last 155 fucking years. I'm white as fuck and I still wouldn't take the overwhelming malice those people have in them for granted because they will fuck anyone over, regardless of skin colour, when the decide to get into one of their mob mentality moments.

There is something deeply and seriously wrong with those people and their entire culture. I don't care who it pisses off to say it either. For them to go around for the last five or six generations now possessed of such completely unhinged hate and anger and engaging in their endless spasms of hyper-violence is unacceptable by any standard of civilization. That's the greatest tragedy that came from Lincoln's assassination. His successors, lesser men all of them, abandoned Reconstruction far too early. That attitude needed to be burned out of the South altogether, the same way militarism was burned out of Germany and Japan in World War Two. What should have been destroyed altogether by the Civil War was left to fester and it's come back full-force today, with a reprehensible intensity as bad as it was back in 1861.

When you are convicted of bringing a gun to school like Ahmaud was, you lose those second amendment rights. Mob mentality moments? Unhinged hate and anger? Endless spasms of hyper-violence? Really? Do tell. Sounds like you are talking about Chicago to me. 500 blacks get shot by 500 blacks in one weekend in Chicago. I bet that you cannot find 500 blacks shot by whites in the entire state of Georgia in the last 40 years. This aint the 1960's any more.

[rickc]

fifeboy fifeboy:

rickc rickc:

I spend a lot of time in the police misconduct thread as I believe that the police in the states are out of control in a lot of locations. It would be easy to dismiss the problem as a lack of training. I believe that the problem is not a lack of training, but that they are being trained as an occupying army. Peace officers are supposed to de-escalate situations. Too many police departments are trained to escalate every situation. All contact (for any reason) with these officers turns into an interrogation complete with demands to produce ID. I actually seen a video a few weeks ago where a man who was calling in an accident was arrested for failing to ID. Its fucking ridiculous. All contact with these officers turns into a fishing expedition. Every question that they ask is designed to trip you up and generate revenue through arrest, or citation. All contact turns into an unconstitutional search. You can't ask these assholes the time of day without getting searched and ran through the system. I am not joking. Unfortunately for African Americans, they are the number one target of opportunity for this police misconduct. In many locals all a black person has to do is leave their home to start attracting unwanted attention from law enforcement.

Police misconduct is a big problem in the U.S., but its not the only problem. Another big problem is where someone accuses someone else of sexual misconduct, rape, racism, discrimination, etc, and the country divides into two different camps. You see it every day on this forum. Every issue becomes a left vs. right battle. A few days ago someone posted a link where Bill Mah

BLAH. BLAH. BLAH
OK FOLKS, I read that...and have come to my limit of organic nitrogen fertilizer for the day!

Good night.

You always were a lightweight when it came to debating. Sleep tight.

[Thanos]

Guess that's where we're at now. Chasing down and shooting an unarmed person is now the height of bravery and neighbourhood responsibility because "he might have done something". The coffin lid or basic civility or courage or humanity has to be running out of space by now to hammer any more nails into it, right?

[Public_Domain]

i will fucking never go to america unless i have an actual death wish

living in that country is effectively premeditated suicide

[rickc]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I can’t verify the claims you’ve been making about this case, but it’s largely irrelevant. Having a juvenile record in your past or jogging in a neighborhood you don’t live in doesn’t make you a free kill for who ever decides to execute you or make you subject to citizens arrests. And the men who killed him certainly didn’t know anything about his past or where he lived when they killed him.

I do know that in Georgia you can’t make a citizens arrest unless :

1) a felony crime has occurred (which it didn’t). Trespassing on a construction site is not a felony. AND

2) the arresting citizen witnessed or has “immediate knowledge of” the accused committing the aforementioned felony. And to recap, there was no felony Suspecting someone may have committed other unsolved crimes doesn’t count. So

Therefore the citizens arrest was unlawful as neither criteria were met. Also their justification for the use of force is weak. Even in a legitimate citizens arrest (which this is not) you cannot use force except to prevent a violent felony from occurring, ie you can’t subdue them or attack them just to keep them from getting away.


And where are all these white cops jailed for killing black men as you claim? I can’t think of a single one.

First off let me apologize for my sloppy posting today. Now that my life consists of binge watching shows and power drinking all day, I have cut back on some things. I cut the cord and unplugged the tv. My whole life is one one device now. Yesterday I had a killer post prepared for this thread. I had links prepared to back up my claims. This site was down last night. I could not get on. I tried watching tv. The show kept buffering and stopping. I felt like I had to many tabs open on my weak old laptop. I closed everything out to try and speed things up. After staying up to 8 am drinking all night I was in no shape for anything heavy today. My timing is all messed up. I know it sounds lame, but it is what it is. I had links from the district attorney himself proving that the ex cop knew Ahmaud. It was an official letter that he had typed to Amauds mother. He was telling her that he was recusing himself from the case as SHE requested. I am still too rough around the edges to do any heavy lifting. Its there if you want to look for it. I am stating for a fact that the ex cop knew Ahmaud in an official capacity.

Why do you assume that Ahmaud only has a juvenile record? Anyway I can see that you have done some homework for this topic. That is good. The bad part is that you seem to have gotten your talking points from Ahmaud's mother's lawyer. While its true that trespassing is not a felony, burglary is. Trespassing would be going on the property. Once he entered the house it became burglary.
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/20 ... ion-16-7-1
Burglary is entering a dwelling without authorization with the intent to commit a felony or theft. The dwelling does not have to be occupied. It can be vacant. When they say theft, there is no dollar amount. It does not have to be grand larceny, any theft will do. He does not have to succeed in the theft, intent is all that is required. We have him on video casing the joint. A felony DID occur. A felony called burglary. That is exactly how it was called in to the police by several different people. the ex cop and his son DID have first hand knowledge of the burglary, that is why they armed themselves and gave chase. There WAS immediate knowledge and there WAS a felony. As far as the use of force in making the citizens arrest goes, it sounds like you are repeating more talking points from Ahmaud's mother's lawyer. You absolutely MAY use force to apprehend the fleeing suspect.
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/20 ... ion-16-7-1
There is the actual Georgia law. Where does it say that you cannot subdue them to keep them from getting away? It clearly says that if the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him. How else is the private person going to arrest an escaping person without subduing them? Stop using talking points from an ambulance chaser looking to cash in on this tragedy.

I am sorry if my post implied that there was a plethora of white cops jailed for killing blacks. That was not my intent. We both know that is not the case. Unfortunately it usually does take the threat of violence in the streets to get any justice for blacks killed by cops of any color. I do not blame them for not trusting the criminal justice system in the U.S. The cards are stacked against them big time. That fact does not make me want to see two men who care about their community have the cards stacked against them as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

Guess that's where we're at now. Chasing down and shooting an unarmed person is now the height of bravery and neighbourhood responsibility because "he might have done something". The coffin lid or basic civility or courage or humanity has to be running out of space by now to hammer any more nails into it, right?

Did you even bother to look at the videos that I posted in this thread? Its not a question of he "might" have done something. We "know" that he did something. Several different people seen him enter a home that was not his. That is burglary. Plain and simple. He was a burglary suspect. You know what you do with burglary suspects? You arrest them. I'm pretty sure its the same way in Canada. If you would go back and look at the first video that I posted in this thread you will see that it is Ahmaud that is attacking the son. The son is the one trying to get away.

I find it strange that when a Canadian blew away some Native American in Canada, you were all for it. You were supporting the guy. He was standing his ground. Was the Canadian guy doing the shooting a trained law enforcement officer? Was the Native American committing burglary or was it merely trespassing? Was the Native American armed? Were the Marquess of Queensbury rules in affect? Why was that ok, but a man who is a trained law enforcement officer is in the wrong for attempting to apprehend a known fleeing felon?

By the way I am not passing any judgement on the Canadian who shot the Native American. I am just curious as to how an untrained civilian shooting someone is ok, yet a trained law enforcement officer just has to sit by and let the neighborhood fall to shit. Enquiring minds want to know!

[rickc]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

i will fucking never go to america unless i have an actual death wish

living in that country is effectively premeditated suicide

Lets get real, you cannot afford to leave town let alone the country. You do not own a passport, probably never will. You have to show U.S. immigration that you have the means to support yourself while you are in the states to enter the states. You do not have the means to support yourself in Canada, let alone a foreign country. So lets not pretend like you ever actually had a choice to visit the states. You haven't.

[Thanos]

Coulton Boushie got shot and died while he and his friends, who showed up armed with a rifle of their own, were attacking a farm family to rob them. He was entirely responsible for this own actions and came to a bad end thanks to his own bad choices. The farmer shot him at close range on his own property, he didn't chase Boushie and his shit friends out onto a public road and start firing away with no regard at all to hitting someone else. This fellow in Georgia did none of that. He got attacked by a couple of local good ol' boy crazies using the "protect the neighbourhood" excuse. Do these differences, in situations that were entirely unique, not mean anything?

You go on and on in the police misconduct thread about the shitty cops doing wrong but you're giving the green-light here to private citizens who have no idea of the true situation running out into the middle of the street to gun someone down. Reckless much? Complain about inept cops but say it's OK for a non-police officer who's operating under extreme anger, panic, or completely wrong information to start blazing away with a firearm? What if those two assholes had shot a kid in the area while they were playing policeman? Would that be OK with you because their "intentions were good"? No wonder the blood doesn't stop flowing into the gutters in your country considering some many people, including yourself apparently, use every excuse in the joke book as hair-brained excuses to put the kibosh on each other.

[DrCaleb]

Martin15 Martin15:

If you try to grab a gun, you deserve what happens next.

That has to be the most ludicrous thing you've ever written.

Someone points a shotgun at you, and you defend yourself, so you deserve to die?

Top 10 insane posts on this site, for sure.

[Tricks]

rickc rickc:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

i will fucking never go to america unless i have an actual death wish

living in that country is effectively premeditated suicide

Lets get real, you cannot afford to leave town let alone the country. You do not own a passport, probably never will. You have to show U.S. immigration that you have the means to support yourself while you are in the states to enter the states. You do not have the means to support yourself in Canada, let alone a foreign country. So lets not pretend like you ever actually had a choice to visit the states. You haven't.

Hey at least up here he doesn't have to now worry about being shot or assaulted when trying to enforce mask rules on private property.

Unlike your country. 'Merica!

[Zipperfish]

I'm not sure there was cause for arrest. You need reasonable and probable grounds of a felony to effect a citizen's arrest in Georgia, I think. The pair arrested could not identify to the 911 operator the crime that was being committed, other than a "Black man running through their neighbourhood." There has been no evidence that any felony was committed by Arbery, to my knowledge. They never told Arbery he was under arrest, unless I'm mistaken.

If there were not grounds for a citizen's arrest, then any claims of self-defence or stand your ground are out the window, and it becomes, essentially, a murderous assault.