[Thanos]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Robair Robair:

Well what if the entire population is dirt poor and the military or the street are their only options? That should do it.

That's why the US military has a lot of underprivileged people already. The only way out of abject poverty is service.

It worked for me.

[Thanos]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

...we might have to pipe our water east...

NO ALBERTA WATER PIPELINES ACROSS QUEBEC TERRITORY!!!!!!!

[Zipperfish]

bootlegga bootlegga:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

llama66 llama66:

Downside is the process can be expensive...

What is the cost to the environment, farmers and regular Canadians if we run pipes south?

Like Rick says, lots of places run desalinization plants. Israel is one that does that, and also has a vast system to recycle sewage water for farming use as well.

Saves quite a bit of money.

The problem with desalinzation plants is they use shit tons of energy, which means burning fossil fuels or nuclear power, and nuclear power is still a pariah in North America 40 years after Three Mile Island.

NAWAMPA as it stands is too big to build, because you'd have to relocate almost 200,000 people and destroy the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands more, but I could see something smaller scale being built (pipelines and pumping stations without the massive reservoirs) to pump all that excess fresh water in the Yukon and northern BC south.

The side effect is that we'd have to build some of the pieces here in Canada as a trade-off (Grand Canada Canal from Alberta to Lake Superior) to ensure our own water supplies as glaciers in the Rockies keep melting.

I don't know the solution, but maybe someday we'll re-purpose oil pipelines into water pipelines and ship 'blue gold' south instead. Either way, I can't see a future in which Canada doesn't send bulk water export south, because the US desperately needs freshwater in the SW and SE.

The US has more than enough water. Shortages arise when you decide to build a city of several million in a desert, or turn thousands of square miles of parched land into arable land.

Desalinization, as currently practiced is energy-intensive (reverse osmosis). It might be an interesting engineering project to look at an off-shore, solar-charged, low-tech evaporative process. Wonder if anybody has ever looked into it.

[BeaverFever]

And golf courses. Don’t forget golf courses. They get all kinds of exemptions from water use, pesticide use, tax etc. For no other reason than the fact that rich and powerful men like golf courses.

[bootlegga]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

bootlegga bootlegga:

The problem with desalinzation plants is they use shit tons of energy, which means burning fossil fuels or nuclear power, and nuclear power is still a pariah in North America 40 years after Three Mile Island.

NAWAMPA as it stands is too big to build, because you'd have to relocate almost 200,000 people and destroy the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands more, but I could see something smaller scale being built (pipelines and pumping stations without the massive reservoirs) to pump all that excess fresh water in the Yukon and northern BC south.

The side effect is that we'd have to build some of the pieces here in Canada as a trade-off (Grand Canada Canal from Alberta to Lake Superior) to ensure our own water supplies as glaciers in the Rockies keep melting.

I don't know the solution, but maybe someday we'll re-purpose oil pipelines into water pipelines and ship 'blue gold' south instead. Either way, I can't see a future in which Canada doesn't send bulk water export south, because the US desperately needs freshwater in the SW and SE.

The US has more than enough water. Shortages arise when you decide to build a city of several million in a desert, or turn thousands of square miles of parched land into arable land.

Desalinization, as currently practiced is energy-intensive (reverse osmosis). It might be an interesting engineering project to look at an off-shore, solar-charged, low-tech evaporative process. Wonder if anybody has ever looked into it.

In theory, the US has plenty of water, but a significant portion of it is locked up in glaciers in Alaska, while its major population centres industry and agriculture are in the lower 48 states.

California built a huge desalinization plant in Carlsbad in 2015 for about $1 billion, conveniently situated next to a nuclear power plant, and at full capacity, it can provide water for maybe 500,000 people. California will need probably half a dozen or more of these plants going forward to keep up with growth and demand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_%2 ... tion_Plant

Your solution sounds like a good idea on paper, but I don't know if it's scalable to the amount needed for US industry, agriculture and people. I'm not an engineer or a scientist, but I can't imagine how that type of system could produce the needed tens of millions per litres of water per day unless it was the size of a small country. And then, even if it could match one desalinization plant, you'd need to build a dozen or more to meet demand and future growth.

I'm sure Americans could also cut their water usage to stretch existing water sources, which is among the highest in the world, but a big part of that usage is industry and agriculture, although frivilous uses like huge golf courses should definitely be trimmed back.

Yeah, we can all sit here and say that building huge cities in the SW was a foolish idea, but 30 million or so live in those areas now, and short of kicking them all out and moving them north to Oregon or Idaho, they will need water. The same can be said in the SE were water shortages are also a problem. The interior states are even worse off long term because the Ogalla aquifer is slowly drained of its water and glaciers in the Rockies melt and rivers lose water flow (melting glaciers in the Rockies will affect Canadian cities on the Prairies in the coming decades too).

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm guessing that the financial benefits will eventually win over enough Canadians to allow bulk water exports to the US and other water stressed countries. I read somewhere not that long ago that Manitoba could make as much as $4 billion/year if it was allowed to export water to the US.

[BeaverFever]

I’m tired of Canada being America’s pantry. Offer them a drop and they will drink us dry. Most of it would probably go to their water parks and swimming pools, manicured estate lawns and golf courses in the desert anyway. Not the people who need it to survive.

[Thanos]

During negotiations tell them it has to be shared equally, with the poor and working class getting first distribution, and that it can't be charged for ever on utility bills or given to for-profit water bottlers. At that stage the talks will break down altogether as the Americans flee the discussion room in horror at the communism inherent in the proposal and the innate government interference in Saint Free Market that we'd want included in the deal.

[fifeboy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I’m tired of Canada being America’s pantry. Offer them a drop and they will drink us dry. Most of it would probably go to their water parks and swimming pools, manicured estate lawns and golf courses in the desert anyway. Not the people who need it to survive.

^^^

[Martin15]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Yeah, we can all sit here and say that building huge cities in the SW was a foolish idea, but 30 million or so live in those areas now, and short of kicking them all out and moving them north to Oregon or Idaho, they will need water. The same can be said in the SE were water shortages are also a problem. The interior states are even worse off long term because the Ogalla aquifer is slowly drained of its water and glaciers in the Rockies melt and rivers lose water flow (melting glaciers in the Rockies will affect Canadian cities on the Prairies in the coming decades too).

As I said, we can sell it to them, or they can come and take it.

The fact that the typical America haters explode with rage at the idea
is irrelevant. Trying to being some kind of morality police about the sale
is just idiotic.
We could just say no, and the US can shut us down.
Because most people are just too stupid to understand how much we need them,
and how much they don't need us.

That trend will continue.

[BeaverFever]

Bullshit they don’t us. Our economies are integrated, their corporations have cross-border supply chains and of course they need our resources. The claim that we have to hand over the resources they desperately need because they don’t need us fails on face value alone.

Enough with you Neville Chamberlain appeasers That’s xactly the kind fifth-columnist attitude I’m talking about.

[Martin15]

See the hysterical rage ?

$1:

Our economies are integrated,

Because the Americans wanted it.

$1:

their corporations have cross-border supply chains

Because it made sense.. a long time ago.

$1:

The claim that we have to hand over the resources they desperately need

I didn't say hand over, I said SELL.

By your seething hate, we should stop selling lumber and oil to the US as well.

But not to worry, it won't be Ontario water they will be buying,
so you can be sure to keep screwing other parts of Canada, as usual.

[BeaverFever]

Why am I not surprised you failed geography class? Maybe if you actually lived in North America instead of vagabonding around Europe you might be little more knowledgeable


What provinces do you think have the most freshwater and the Great Lakes? PEI?

Our economies are integrated because BUSINESSES on both sides of the border wanted it and the governments finally mutually agreed to it. America didn’t force is to integrate against our will And now that US businesses have their cross-border supply chains, the US government isn’t going to disrupt those.

You said “sell” but every breath you’ve uttered is that we have to bend over and let America do to us whatever they want. So if true we’d be selling at whatever price they told is to.

Considering you also supported Russias annexation of Crimea, I’m not surprised you would support US taking over our water.

Some of aren’t afraid to stand up to the US, surrender-monkey.

[Martin15]

No one wants water that Toronto shits in. Too salty from all the tears.

[llama66]

Martin15 Martin15:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Yeah, we can all sit here and say that building huge cities in the SW was a foolish idea, but 30 million or so live in those areas now, and short of kicking them all out and moving them north to Oregon or Idaho, they will need water. The same can be said in the SE were water shortages are also a problem. The interior states are even worse off long term because the Ogalla aquifer is slowly drained of its water and glaciers in the Rockies melt and rivers lose water flow (melting glaciers in the Rockies will affect Canadian cities on the Prairies in the coming decades too).

As I said, we can sell it to them, or they can come and take it.

The fact that the typical America haters explode with rage at the idea
is irrelevant. Trying to being some kind of morality police about the sale
is just idiotic.
We could just say no, and the US can shut us down.
Because most people are just too stupid to understand how much we need them,
and how much they don't need us.

That trend will continue.

Let them come. Turn that nation to the North Hostile, I'm sure High-King Emperor Trump would love it if we climbed right into bed with the Russians/Chinese.

I think you forget, 1. Canada is part of the Commonwealth and thus those countries would assist us; 2. The British have more Troops on Canadian soil that Canada does, 3. No Democracy has ever attacked another Democracy in history. Ever.

To Invade would be suicide for any politician who advocates it.

Then there is the question of geography, and the fact that they've just invaded a nation of pretty pissed off people who both LOOK and SOUND like them, moreover these people have be submerged in their culture to PASS as one of them. Disaster.

No, they will not "take" our water. They know invading is as dumb as it sounds.

[herbie]

Why invade and occupy when you can buy?
First convince everyone to privatize water, then the US just buys up all those companies. Mission accomplished.
A lot cheaper than war, too.