[Zipperfish]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

And golf courses. Don’t forget golf courses. They get all kinds of exemptions from water use, pesticide use, tax etc. For no other reason than the fact that rich and powerful men like golf courses.

eye opening, thx

[Zipperfish]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Your solution sounds like a good idea on paper, but I don't know if it's scalable to the amount needed for US industry, agriculture and people. I'm not an engineer or a scientist, but I can't imagine how that type of system could produce the needed tens of millions per litres of water per day unless it was the size of a small country. And then, even if it could match one desalinization plant, you'd need to build a dozen or more to meet demand and future growth.

I'm sure Americans could also cut their water usage to stretch existing water sources, which is among the highest in the world, but a big part of that usage is industry and agriculture, although frivilous uses like huge golf courses should definitely be trimmed back.

Yeah, we can all sit here and say that building huge cities in the SW was a foolish idea, but 30 million or so live in those areas now, and short of kicking them all out and moving them north to Oregon or Idaho, they will need water. The same can be said in the SE were water shortages are also a problem. The interior states are even worse off long term because the Ogalla aquifer is slowly drained of its water and glaciers in the Rockies melt and rivers lose water flow (melting glaciers in the Rockies will affect Canadian cities on the Prairies in the coming decades too).

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm guessing that the financial benefits will eventually win over enough Canadians to allow bulk water exports to the US and other water stressed countries. I read somewhere not that long ago that Manitoba could make as much as $4 billion/year if it was allowed to export water to the US.

This MIT prototype produced 5.78 L (about 1.5 gallons) of freshwater / m2.h of solar array. That's not bad. I'd have to take a look at the materials, but if you scale up to a 1 km2 system, that's 1.5 million gallons/hr. There'd be lots of inefficiencies and losses, but if you even got half of that...

[DrCaleb]

I was wondering myself about that graphic. 361 gallons a day? I know that I use about 1.5 m^3 a week. That's 391 US gallons, a week. But that might be because I run my own water and septic systems, so I am very aware of my usage.

Is there really that big a difference?

[Zipperfish]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I was wondering myself about that graphic. 361 gallons a day? I know that I use about 1.5 m^3 a week. That's 391 US gallons, a week. But that might be because I run my own water and septic systems, so I am very aware of my usage.

Is there really that big a difference?

Avergae water use in Canada is listed as 329 liters. Probably that includes leakage in th emains (I know in some municipalities that leakage is significant).

[BeaverFever]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I was wondering myself about that graphic. 361 gallons a day? I know that I use about 1.5 m^3 a week. That's 391 US gallons, a week. But that might be because I run my own water and septic systems, so I am very aware of my usage.

Is there really that big a difference?

Looks like lawns and pools are the culprit. Also this is California data



https://www.motherjones.com/environment ... alifornia/

[DrCaleb]

Ah! I don't do lawns and pools, so that is a little better.

'Leaks' looks pretty big too! I don't have those either.

[bootlegga]

Thanos Thanos:

During negotiations tell them it has to be shared equally, with the poor and working class getting first distribution, and that it can't be charged for ever on utility bills or given to for-profit water bottlers. At that stage the talks will break down altogether as the Americans flee the discussion room in horror at the communism inherent in the proposal and the innate government interference in Saint Free Market that we'd want included in the deal.

[bootlegga]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Why am I not surprised you failed geography class? Maybe if you actually lived in North America instead of vagabonding around Europe you might be little more knowledgeable


What provinces do you think have the most freshwater and the Great Lakes? PEI?

The most water flow is in northern BC and Yukon and NWT territories, not Ontario, because the Great Lakes are pretty much untouchable for mass diversions. Canada has fought tooth and nail at the IJC to stop the US from draining the Great Lakes, which they keep trying to do via diversions, canals and other schemes. The water in the Great Lakes is crucial for tourism, recreation, and shipping, which is why Canada keeps disputing withdrawls from it at the IJC.

Take a look at either of the links I posted - one dams James Bay and sends water south to the US (GRAND), while the other channels and diverts water from the Yukon and northern BC to the Prairies, Plains states and the southwest, including Mexico (NAWAMPA).

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Our economies are integrated because BUSINESSES on both sides of the border wanted it and the governments finally mutually agreed to it. America didn’t force is to integrate against our will And now that US businesses have their cross-border supply chains, the US government isn’t going to disrupt those.

You said “sell” but every breath you’ve uttered is that we have to bend over and let America do to us whatever they want. So if true we’d be selling at whatever price they told is to.

The US will do the 'bean counter thing' and determine which costs less and do that.

Disruption of cross border trade will probably cost them much less in the short run than having 30 million refugees fleeing drought/water-stricken parts of the country would in the long run.

[Zipperfish]

bootlegga bootlegga:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Why am I not surprised you failed geography class? Maybe if you actually lived in North America instead of vagabonding around Europe you might be little more knowledgeable


What provinces do you think have the most freshwater and the Great Lakes? PEI?

The most water flow is in northern BC and Yukon and NWT territories, not Ontario, because the Great Lakes are pretty much untouchable for mass diversions. Canada has fought tooth and nail at the IJC to stop the US from draining the Great Lakes, which they keep trying to do via diversions, canals and other schemes. The water in the Great Lakes is crucial for tourism, recreation, and shipping, which is why Canada keeps disputing withdrawls from it at the IJC.

Take a look at either of the links I posted - one dams James Bay and sends water south to the US (GRAND), while the other channels and diverts water from the Yukon and northern BC to the Prairies, Plains states and the southwest, including Mexico (NAWAMPA).

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Our economies are integrated because BUSINESSES on both sides of the border wanted it and the governments finally mutually agreed to it. America didn’t force is to integrate against our will And now that US businesses have their cross-border supply chains, the US government isn’t going to disrupt those.

You said “sell” but every breath you’ve uttered is that we have to bend over and let America do to us whatever they want. So if true we’d be selling at whatever price they told is to.

The US will do the 'bean counter thing' and determine which costs less and do that.

Disruption of cross border trade will probably cost them much less in the short run than having 30 million refugees fleeing drought/water-stricken parts of the country would in the long run.

Interesting aside for all those folks complaining that Nestle is helping themselves to groundwater for pennies per tonne. Nestle actually pays ZERO for the water; the pittance they do pay is basically an admin fee. The reason (I've been told) is that if the province were to charge for the water, they would commodify the water and open themselves up legally, to mass water exports.

[BeaverFever]

bootlegga bootlegga:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Why am I not surprised you failed geography class? Maybe if you actually lived in North America instead of vagabonding around Europe you might be little more knowledgeable


What provinces do you think have the most freshwater and the Great Lakes? PEI?

The most water flow is in northern BC and Yukon and NWT territories, not Ontario, because the Great Lakes are pretty much untouchable for mass diversions. Canada has fought tooth and nail at the IJC to stop the US from draining the Great Lakes, which they keep trying to do via diversions, canals and other schemes. The water in the Great Lakes is crucial for tourism, recreation, and shipping, which is why Canada keeps disputing withdrawls from it at the IJC.

Take a look at either of the links I posted - one dams James Bay and sends water south to the US (GRAND), while the other channels and diverts water from the Yukon and northern BC to the Prairies, Plains states and the southwest, including Mexico (NAWAMPA).

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Our economies are integrated because BUSINESSES on both sides of the border wanted it and the governments finally mutually agreed to it. America didn’t force is to integrate against our will And now that US businesses have their cross-border supply chains, the US government isn’t going to disrupt those.

You said “sell” but every breath you’ve uttered is that we have to bend over and let America do to us whatever they want. So if true we’d be selling at whatever price they told is to.

The US will do the 'bean counter thing' and determine which costs less and do that.

Disruption of cross border trade will probably cost them much less in the short run than having 30 million refugees fleeing drought/water-stricken parts of the country would in the long run.

James Bay is in Ontario and unless I missed something the plan for that water is to route through the Great Lakes. And wouldn’t everything including Great Lakes be on the table for a hypothetical water deal anyway?

[peck420]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

This MIT prototype produced 5.78 L (about 1.5 gallons) of freshwater / m2.h of solar array. That's not bad. I'd have to take a look at the materials, but if you scale up to a 1 km2 system, that's 1.5 million gallons/hr. There'd be lots of inefficiencies and losses, but if you even got half of that...

Why didn't they test this with tidal generators?

Seems like they kind of go together....desalinization and tidal...

Could significantly reduce the solar coverage requirements.

[Zipperfish]

peck420 peck420:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

This MIT prototype produced 5.78 L (about 1.5 gallons) of freshwater / m2.h of solar array. That's not bad. I'd have to take a look at the materials, but if you scale up to a 1 km2 system, that's 1.5 million gallons/hr. There'd be lots of inefficiencies and losses, but if you even got half of that...

Why didn't they test this with tidal generators?

Seems like they kind of go together....desalinization and tidal...

Could significantly reduce the solar coverage requirements.

Sorry, forgot to attach the link in my previous note:

http://news.mit.edu/2020/passive-solar-powered-water-desalination-0207

The process is solar-powered, but not solar-charged (i.e. there is no transformation of solar to electrical, and no solar panels required.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I’m tired of Canada being America’s pantry. Offer them a drop and they will drink us dry. Most of it would probably go to their water parks and swimming pools, manicured estate lawns and golf courses in the desert anyway. Not the people who need it to survive.

Most of it would go to Los Angeles.

[peck420]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Sorry, forgot to attach the link in my previous note:

http://news.mit.edu/2020/passive-solar-powered-water-desalination-0207

The process is solar-powered, but not solar-charged (i.e. there is no transformation of solar to electrical, and no solar panels required.

I see! Very nice. I like that their test rig is also very efficient on the cheap build setup.

Looks like a promising avenue for global usage.

If I am reading this right, a more professionally designed and built setup can net up to 800% efficiency (vs the 385% of the test rig). That would work down to much more compact setup for denser, urban usage.

[herbie]

Now that Central BC has climate changed with Vancouver it's hard to envision 'water shortages" even though we have those water lawns on even/odd days (just to collect fucking fine revenue I'm sure...).
Diversion? Ever hear of the Nechako river? They turn it on and off like a kitchen tap... not great for the fishies