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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:55 pm
 


saga wrote:
ps

I'M BAAACK !!!

Thank you for reinstating me mods! :wink:

The day isn't over.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:08 pm
 


Arctic_Menace wrote:
Quote:
that we've used about Indigenous people are not about their true characters but the ravages of six generations of abuse, impoverishment, dispersal of families, loss of culture, language and tradition and SUPPRESSION of RELIGION (!) and of course the loss of land and livelihood ...


This has not been forcibly implemented on behalf of the Canadian government. The natives are more than capable of changing this themselves...


HEY ... a PARTY !!! You shouldn't have :oops: :D

They can change it now ... but their democracy and spiritual traditions were outlawed by the Indian Act. This happened at gunpoint at Six Nations in 1924 when the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) Confederacy was 'legally' dissolved, and the elected band council was imposed.

(Note the Confederacy survived ... with difficulties ... and again leads Six Nations in partnership with administrative band councillors
... some of whom can be unelected.)

I know ... you hate it when I'm right
... and then I get banned ... sigh ...
... here we go again!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:12 pm
 


Regina wrote:
saga wrote:

** you can verify inc tx with riverwind (biatch) at mapleleafweb.ca,
... and please say hello for me cos I'm banned from there :lol:
... and I'll bet they miss me as much as you folks did ! :wink:
... but riverslime was such a rude biatch and no phucking phun fun at all !
... tell her to get a life! :D :roll:

Well Hazelnut you're probably only a post or two away from that here as well.


Hazelnut ... how sweet!

always just a post or two away?

You REALLY need to meet riverwind (see post above ...

IN FACT ALL OF YOU READ MY LAST POST!!! 'MY WHOLE POINT' is there!

There I was solving EVERYTHING and here you all were slinging mud at my pretty picture !

pppphhhhhtttt !


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:13 pm
 


saga...I really think that you should stop and take a look at the history that might have been. The arriving French and British could have treated the natives of this country the same way the Americans treated the natives in their country.

Now I am not saying that the natives should have been wiped out but the way things are going............


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:14 pm
 


Mustang1 wrote:
Arctic_Menace wrote:
Quote:
that we've used about Indigenous people are not about their true characters but the ravages of six generations of abuse, impoverishment, dispersal of families, loss of culture, language and tradition and SUPPRESSION of RELIGION (!) and of course the loss of land and livelihood ...


This has not been forcibly implemented on behalf of the Canadian government. The natives are more than capable of changing this themselves...


Oh…and just for the record: there are no indigenous people in North America. Modern Home Sapiens is the only group identified in the fossil record here– everyone immigrated here from somewhere else. That’s basic anthropology. Granny crapped the bed again.


semantics ... take it up with the UN


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:18 pm
 


saga wrote:
Mustang1 wrote:
Arctic_Menace wrote:
Quote:
that we've used about Indigenous people are not about their true characters but the ravages of six generations of abuse, impoverishment, dispersal of families, loss of culture, language and tradition and SUPPRESSION of RELIGION (!) and of course the loss of land and livelihood ...


This has not been forcibly implemented on behalf of the Canadian government. The natives are more than capable of changing this themselves...


Oh…and just for the record: there are no indigenous people in North America. Modern Home Sapiens is the only group identified in the fossil record here– everyone immigrated here from somewhere else. That’s basic anthropology. Granny crapped the bed again.


semantics ... take it up with the UN


Not sematics! Facts!! Of course facts are only used when the benefit certain groups of people. Quite like the 'jurisdiction' card. "We will obey the laws that work for us and ignore the rest."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:22 pm
 


saga wrote:
Regina wrote:
saga wrote:

** you can verify inc tx with riverwind (biatch) at mapleleafweb.ca,
... and please say hello for me cos I'm banned from there :lol:
... and I'll bet they miss me as much as you folks did ! :wink:
... but riverslime was such a rude biatch and no phucking phun fun at all !
... tell her to get a life! :D :roll:

Well Hazelnut you're probably only a post or two away from that here as well.


Hazelnut ... how sweet!

always just a post or two away?

You REALLY need to meet riverwind (see post above ...

IN FACT ALL OF YOU READ MY LAST POST!!! 'MY WHOLE POINT' is there!

There I was solving EVERYTHING and here you all were slinging mud at my pretty picture !

pppphhhhhtttt !

I don't think anyone reads your posts..........I don't.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:26 pm
 


Quote:
There I was solving EVERYTHING



ROTFL


Get off your high-horse already.....


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:48 pm
 


PJB wrote:
s--Me too. Indigenous communities are a savings in that regard ... they only get half as much government money as our municipalities.

Pardon me!!! You better check your figures there darling! I pay municipal and education TAXES to my municipality. Reserves GET money for education and everything else. Natives don't pay taxes on reserve so how else does the band raise money!!!


I was hoping you would bring that up.:D

You see, every municipality gets roughly half of its budget from the provincial government annually. The other half comes from your pocket, it's true.
BUT ... their Band Council allocations from the federal government are HALF of what the provincial government pays to our municipalities.
And yes, they do not collect taxes on the reserves as municipalities do,
so their actual community budget is ... 1/4 of ours.
AND ... that already includes the contributions from the other Ministries - Health, Education, etc. etc. for those services.
... and that WOULD have to double immediately, for equality,
if assimilation were possible ... but it's not ...
AND we are saving that money.


PJB wrote:
BTW..I am not anti-native nor was I or will I ever be.
You on the other hand are anti-everyone-who-is-not-native.
:D


I am anti-incorrect assumptions because they lead to harmful stereotypes.
I am a data head.
I rove the internet blowing apart unverified presuppositions
... with data.;)
We are in MY territory, darlin' !

... and no ... I like all men ;) vrooooomm;)

PJB wrote:
You have received enough payments for your lands..It is Canada's land now, which means it is all of ours or is it the native way not to share..'We want all of it damnit!'


ahhh PJB sweetie ... it's JUST not going to work for us cos I'll have to keep correcting your data and you'll resent that ... sigh ...

SOME claims have been settled for SOME groups.
They ALL have to go through the process. 780 waiting on the government's list ... and if you want to complain about the government's process ...
... talk to someone who cares.

They are now reclaiming their land instead.

And no ... they have not all been paid enough. Six Nations has, just for a small example, $2b outstanding just from the leases for Brantford. And that is as reported by the Mayor of Brantford a few years ago.

BUT ... if you READ MY LONG POST ABOVE, you will see that the riverqueenslut at makebelieveweb ... who hates my guts and didn't want to spill this ... estimates that it ALL amounts to a 1-2% increase in income tax.

suck it up.
Then we can call ourselves an honourable country again.
Well worth it, in my opinion.

Don't worry ... be happy ...;) :)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:53 pm
 


saga wrote:
PJB wrote:
s--Me too. Indigenous communities are a savings in that regard ... they only get half as much government money as our municipalities.

Pardon me!!! You better check your figures there darling! I pay municipal and education TAXES to my municipality. Reserves GET money for education and everything else. Natives don't pay taxes on reserve so how else does the band raise money!!!


I was hoping you would bring that up.:D

You see, every municipality gets roughly half of its budget from the provincial government annually. The other half comes from your pocket, it's true.
BUT ... their Band Council allocations from the federal government are HALF of what the provincial government pays to our municipalities.
And yes, they do not collect taxes on the reserves as municipalities do,
so their actual community budget is ... 1/4 of ours.
AND ... that already includes the contributions from the other Ministries - Health, Education, etc. etc. for those services.
... and that WOULD have to double immediately, for equality,
if assimilation were possible ... but it's not ...
AND we are saving that money.


PJB wrote:
BTW..I am not anti-native nor was I or will I ever be.
You on the other hand are anti-everyone-who-is-not-native.
:D


I am anti-incorrect assumptions because they lead to harmful stereotypes.
I am a data head.
I rove the internet blowing apart unverified presuppositions
... with data.;)
We are in MY territory, darlin' !

... and no ... I like all men ;) vrooooomm;)

PJB wrote:
You have received enough payments for your lands..It is Canada's land now, which means it is all of ours or is it the native way not to share..'We want all of it damnit!'


ahhh PJB sweetie ... it's JUST not going to work for us cos I'll have to keep correcting your data and you'll resent that ... sigh ...

SOME claims have been settled for SOME groups.
They ALL have to go through the process. 780 waiting on the government's list ... and if you want to complain about the government's process ...
... talk to someone who cares.

They are now reclaiming their land instead.

And no ... they have not all been paid enough. Six Nations has, just for a small example, $2b outstanding just from the leases for Brantford. And that is as reported by the Mayor of Brantford a few years ago.

BUT ... if you READ MY LONG POST ABOVE, you will see that the riverqueenslut at makebelieveweb ... who hates my guts and didn't want to spill this ... estimates that it ALL amounts to a 1-2% increase in income tax.

suck it up.
Then we can call ourselves an honourable country again.
Well worth it, in my opinion.

Don't worry ... be happy ...;) :)


Question...Where does a rather large portion of the provincial monies come from...Provincial Income Taxes, Provincial Sales Taxes, Gas Tax, perhaps? So I am paying it anyway...

Insofar as leases...I wonder how much federal and provincial monies the Six Nations has received for housing, education, infrastructure, paid post secondary education, etc, etc, etc. Please tally that up for me as you are the fact hound.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:03 pm
 


PJB wrote:
saga...I really think that you should stop and take a look at the history that might have been. The arriving French and British could have treated the natives of this country the same way the Americans treated the natives in their country.



You are absolutely right!

So ... once we get this land and sovereignty thing behind us ...

We can continue to claim to be morally superior to the Americans.
It's a win-win!

Now I am not saying that the natives should have been wiped out but the way things are going............[/quote]

... the way things are going ... phucking what you phucking creep!!!
(PJB this just isn't working sweetie ... sigh)

... and IF YOU READ MY PHUCKING POST ABOVE

YOU MAY REALIZE THAT YOU ARE THREATENING EXTINCTION

OVER A PHUCKING 1-2% INCOME TAX INCREASE

YOU PHUCKING CREEP!!!!

Now, stop being such a tightwad ... granny likes her baubles ;)

... besides, what's a percent or two of $20,000 anyway

... hell you are probably not even taxable anyway.

... sigh ... go get your big brother now pj

I'm sure he can afford a percent or two without whining like a stuck pig!
(GOD I hate it when men WHINE ... want some cheese with that ???


ps. "the way things are going ... " you couldn't do it anyway! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:10 pm
 


PJB wrote:
saga wrote:
Mustang1 wrote:
Arctic_Menace wrote:
Quote:
that we've used about Indigenous people are not about their true characters but the ravages of six generations of abuse, impoverishment, dispersal of families, loss of culture, language and tradition and SUPPRESSION of RELIGION (!) and of course the loss of land and livelihood ...


This has not been forcibly implemented on behalf of the Canadian government. The natives are more than capable of changing this themselves...


Oh…and just for the record: there are no indigenous people in North America. Modern Home Sapiens is the only group identified in the fossil record here– everyone immigrated here from somewhere else. That’s basic anthropology. Granny crapped the bed again.


semantics ... take it up with the UN


Not sematics! Facts!! Of course facts are only used when the benefit certain groups of people. Quite like the 'jurisdiction' card. "We will obey the laws that work for us and ignore the rest."


Look, I can tell you are having a coniption here honey, and I'm with ya ...

but I just don't know what it's about ... jurisdiction card? status card?

It is not them that has to obey our laws (for they have their own)

IT IS US!!!

For a change ... it would be nice if Canada obeyed it's own laws.
That's all.
signed,
a sad canadian who want to live in an honourable country ... but doesn't ... yet.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:10 pm
 


saga...such profanity my dear...I was not advocating any violence whatsover. I am merely voicing what I think many Canadians are thinking.

btw...I am taxable! Way taxable...

Are you?

If we could get over this..."It is my land and you stole it." facade Canada could be a great nation.

Natives have been given a raw deal in the past but the past is the past and the future should be much better through knowledge and respect.

Oh and btw...If you think I am a racist SOB here is a little tidbit for ya...

The GODPARENTS for my first born are native.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:18 pm
 


PJB wrote:
saga wrote:
PJB wrote:
s--Me too. Indigenous communities are a savings in that regard ... they only get half as much government money as our municipalities.

Pardon me!!! You better check your figures there darling! I pay municipal and education TAXES to my municipality. Reserves GET money for education and everything else. Natives don't pay taxes on reserve so how else does the band raise money!!!


I was hoping you would bring that up.:D

You see, every municipality gets roughly half of its budget from the provincial government annually. The other half comes from your pocket, it's true.
BUT ... their Band Council allocations from the federal government are HALF of what the provincial government pays to our municipalities.
And yes, they do not collect taxes on the reserves as municipalities do,
so their actual community budget is ... 1/4 of ours.
AND ... that already includes the contributions from the other Ministries - Health, Education, etc. etc. for those services.
... and that WOULD have to double immediately, for equality,
if assimilation were possible ... but it's not ...
AND we are saving that money.


PJB wrote:
BTW..I am not anti-native nor was I or will I ever be.
You on the other hand are anti-everyone-who-is-not-native.
:D


I am anti-incorrect assumptions because they lead to harmful stereotypes.
I am a data head.
I rove the internet blowing apart unverified presuppositions
... with data.;)
We are in MY territory, darlin' !

... and no ... I like all men ;) vrooooomm;)

PJB wrote:
You have received enough payments for your lands..It is Canada's land now, which means it is all of ours or is it the native way not to share..'We want all of it damnit!'


ahhh PJB sweetie ... it's JUST not going to work for us cos I'll have to keep correcting your data and you'll resent that ... sigh ...

SOME claims have been settled for SOME groups.
They ALL have to go through the process. 780 waiting on the government's list ... and if you want to complain about the government's process ...
... talk to someone who cares.

They are now reclaiming their land instead.

And no ... they have not all been paid enough. Six Nations has, just for a small example, $2b outstanding just from the leases for Brantford. And that is as reported by the Mayor of Brantford a few years ago.

BUT ... if you READ MY LONG POST ABOVE, you will see that the riverqueenslut at makebelieveweb ... who hates my guts and didn't want to spill this ... estimates that it ALL amounts to a 1-2% increase in income tax.

suck it up.
Then we can call ourselves an honourable country again.
Well worth it, in my opinion.

Don't worry ... be happy ...;) :)


Question...Where does a rather large portion of the provincial monies come from...Provincial Income Taxes, Provincial Sales Taxes, Gas Tax, perhaps? So I am paying it anyway...

Insofar as leases...I wonder how much federal and provincial monies the Six Nations has received for housing, education, infrastructure, paid post secondary education, etc, etc, etc. Please tally that up for me as you are the fact hound.


EXACTLY !!!

That is my quest, but it isn't finished yet, but ... YOU LOSE.

AND ... they pay taxes same as you do
... when they work or purchase off the reserve as most do

... so ... it is THEIR tax money too.

ps Regina WILL back me up on this because we already had this discussion on another thread, with someone who knew from personal experience ...

check it out.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:20 pm
 


Regina wrote:
saga wrote:
Regina wrote:
saga wrote:

** you can verify inc tx with riverwind (biatch) at mapleleafweb.ca,
... and please say hello for me cos I'm banned from there :lol:
... and I'll bet they miss me as much as you folks did ! :wink:
... but riverslime was such a rude biatch and no phucking phun fun at all !
... tell her to get a life! :D :roll:

Well Hazelnut you're probably only a post or two away from that here as well.


Hazelnut ... how sweet!

always just a post or two away?

You REALLY need to meet riverwind (see post above ...

IN FACT ALL OF YOU READ MY LAST POST!!! 'MY WHOLE POINT' is there!

There I was solving EVERYTHING and here you all were slinging mud at my pretty picture !

pppphhhhhtttt !

I don't think anyone reads your posts..........I don't.


What the heck are ya doin way up here when I need yer help down at the end of the thread ... move it!
please


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