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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:57 pm
 


Here's my question: If observing or measuring something we reset it, according to quantum theory, wouldn't that mean the first human or proto-human who looked up at the stars screwed us all over?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:09 pm
 


That bastard Isaac Newton


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:50 pm
 


no, way before him.

anyways, observation is a whole another science by itself, because, are we as humans the only observers, or is every particle observing everything else?

why ask this? well because maybe the universe is simply a soup of probabilities, and until we come into existence, those probabilities cease to exist. Maybe it is the presence of our consciousness (the observer) that brings the universe together as we see it, and changes these things we see from probability to reality.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:04 pm
 


so human will actually can change the fabric of reality, but then again, what is reality?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:08 pm
 


Well, based on my crackpot theory, reality is the consiousness' interpretation of information supplied by the senses. The information is simply the resultant of our observation causing the universe to exist.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:24 pm
 


ShepherdsDog wrote:
so human will actually can change the fabric of reality, but then again, what is reality?


Of course we do. Everything, through merely existing and interacting with everything else, changes reality and causes things to happen.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:56 pm
 


And here we go again..........

If a tree falls in the forest........??????????


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:11 pm
 


sasquatch2 wrote:
And here we go again..........

If a tree falls in the forest........??????????
Depends on your definition of sound ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:15 am
 


sasquatch2 wrote:
And here we go again..........

If a tree falls in the forest........??????????


The eschaton will be immanentised.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:28 am
 


I am not so damn worried as they seem to be about dooming the universe since if it goes, what the hell are you and a million of your brightest buds going to do about it? Exactly, nothing. So lean back, crack open a beer and read all the really cool "weird science" articles you want. They're interesting and some point to the wisdom of having more hope but articles like this, they point to the value of having more wisdom before you get too carried away.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:09 am
 


xerxes wrote:
Here's my question: If observing or measuring something we reset it, according to quantum theory, wouldn't that mean the first human or proto-human who looked up at the stars screwed us all over?


No, only the very small observations are 'changable'. At least, the way I understand Quantum Physics.

Canadian_Mind wrote:
anyways, observation is a whole another science by itself, because, are we as humans the only observers, or is every particle observing everything else?


At the time of the Big Bang, the universe was infiitely small then it began to expand. Quantum Entanglement says therefore, all particles in the universe are entangled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

Canadian_Mind wrote:
why ask this? well because maybe the universe is simply a soup of probabilities, and until we come into existence, those probabilities cease to exist. Maybe it is the presence of our consciousness (the observer) that brings the universe together as we see it, and changes these things we see from probability to reality.


This is known as 'collapsing the wave function'. Until we observe, all possibilities exist as a 'wave' of probabilities. Once we observe, the probabilities converge on a single outcome.

The Double Slit experiment with a single electron gives us a glimpse of this. That may be the key to understanding the universe.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/9745
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-sli ... experiment
http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/GeneralI ... eSlit.html

ShepherdsDog wrote:
so human will actually can change the fabric of reality, but then again, what is reality?


If we can affect the outcome, then reality is what we decide it will be.

Canadian_Mind wrote:
Well, based on my crackpot theory, reality is the consiousness' interpretation of information supplied by the senses. The information is simply the resultant of our observation causing the universe to exist.


This is why Einstein hated Quantum Physics. Many QP's believe much the same as your crackpot theory. ;)

PBS had a really good series on "Quantum Physics for Dummies'. Have a look:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:30 pm
 


Excellant post Dr. Caleb. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:50 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
There was this guy, Schrodinger, and he devised a 'thought experiment' to show the inherent flaw in an interpretation of Quantum Physics called the 'Copenhagen interpretation'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrodingers_cat

Put a cat in a box, along with a poison that is released by the radioactive decay of an element, so that sometime in the next hour, the poison is released. His thought experement said that until you look in the box, the cat is nether dead nor alive, but both (and nether). By opening the box, you 'collapse' the wave function into one probablilty or the other.


Sort of like checking the numbers on a lottery ticket - until you KNOW what the numbers are it isn't necessarily a losing ticket. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:48 am
 


kevlarman wrote:
Excellant post Dr. Caleb. :D


Thank you sir.

BartSimpson wrote:
Sort of like checking the numbers on a lottery ticket - until you KNOW what the numbers are it isn't necessarily a losing ticket. :lol:


Or until you hear the prize has been won. :)

My statement "If we can affect the outcome, then reality is what we decide it will be." goes very deep.

I remembered an ongoing experiment; a bunch of random number generators were placed in cities around the world, and left to happily generate random numbers. Being random, the numbers they generate should be no more a pattern than any other series of numbers.

But, it seems, when people concentrate together on something, such as a natural disaster, the numbers become less random.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Con ... ss_Project

http://p-i-a.com/Magazine/Issue13/Physics_13.htm

http://www.redorbit.com/news/display/?id=126649

Food for thought.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:05 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
But, it seems, when people concentrate together on something, such as a natural disaster, the numbers become less random.



We are heading toward Dec 31 2012. Please concentrate on good things. :wink:

It's quantum physics that screws up my golf swing, if I do not observe the ball it does the double slit experiment. :?


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