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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:35 pm
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
Both you guys (kenmore and benny) are missing the point. Although I'm arguing what is essentially a pro (pro/con debate term) position, the core issues are that the military doesn't like it and don't think of it as respect.



Agreed. The topic of conversation at my local Legion was exactly that.

The members were unanimous in the fact that flag traditions transcends all politics.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:41 pm
 


PluggyRug PluggyRug:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Both you guys (kenmore and benny) are missing the point. Although I'm arguing what is essentially a pro (pro/con debate term) position, the core issues are that the military doesn't like it and don't think of it as respect.



Agreed. The topic of conversation at my local Legion was exactly that.

The members were unanimous in the fact that flag traditions transcends all politics.


I'm still waiting for the explantion about how if Canada became a disarmed nation that we would suddenly cease to be influenced by the US.

On a side note, I just watched by boys beat Arsenal. That means at least one english team will be in the finals. I have an on going rivary with a coworker (spanish decent) who believes in the supremacy of spanish soccer.

I tease him mercilessly about how the english teams dominate and should Liverpool win I will win my bet. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:44 pm
 


most of the big push on the flag issue came from families and widows of fallen men. how do we honour our fallen shouldiers.. there are flags at half mast all the time for police, correction workers..etc... if we support our troups ,we should respect them... I was proud as hell when they draped the flag over my dads coffin... they lowered it for my nephew last Oct.. the flag that day was about him and what he represented and what the flag meant to my sister ..
for some its all they have to cling to..


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:46 pm
 


kenmore kenmore:
most of the big push on the flag issue came from families and widows of fallen men. how do we honour our fallen shouldiers.. there are flags at half mast all the time for police, correction workers..etc... if we support our troups ,we should respect them... I was proud as hell when they draped the flag over my dads coffin... they lowered it for my nephew last Oct.. the flag that day was about him and what he represented and what the flag meant to my sister ..
for some its all they have to cling to..


Yes, but the actual military says otherwise. That gets merit also.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:50 pm
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
Benoit Benoit:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Both you guys (kenmore and benny) are missing the point. Although I'm arguing what is essentially a pro (pro/con debate term) position, the core issues are that the military doesn't like it and don't think of it as respect.


An army is not reducible to its past and present staffing. In fact, the idea of maintaining a permanent army is a democratic decision. Without a permanent army, Canada would be less prompt to be the yes-man of Americans.


without a standing army Canada would be less likely to be a yes-man of Aemerica?

Feel free to explain the logic behind that theory.


Re-staffing an army is not an over-night process. American bullies would have to be patient with us.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:53 pm
 


Benoit Benoit:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Benoit Benoit:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Both you guys (kenmore and benny) are missing the point. Although I'm arguing what is essentially a pro (pro/con debate term) position, the core issues are that the military doesn't like it and don't think of it as respect.


An army is not reducible to its past and present staffing. In fact, the idea of maintaining a permanent army is a democratic decision. Without a permanent army, Canada would be less prompt to be the yes-man of Americans.


without a standing army Canada would be less likely to be a yes-man of Aemerica?

Feel free to explain the logic behind that theory.


Re-staffing an army is not an over-night process. American bullies would have to be patient with us.


case in point. That means absolutely nothing because it follows no logic at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:01 pm
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
Benoit Benoit:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Benoit Benoit:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Both you guys (kenmore and benny) are missing the point. Although I'm arguing what is essentially a pro (pro/con debate term) position, the core issues are that the military doesn't like it and don't think of it as respect.


An army is not reducible to its past and present staffing. In fact, the idea of maintaining a permanent army is a democratic decision. Without a permanent army, Canada would be less prompt to be the yes-man of Americans.


without a standing army Canada would be less likely to be a yes-man of Aemerica?

Feel free to explain the logic behind that theory.


Re-staffing an army is not an over-night process. American bullies would have to be patient with us.


case in point. That means absolutely nothing because it follows no logic at all.


When you don't want to participate to the war initiated by your best ally, a dilatory tactic is quite rational.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:05 pm
 


Benoit Benoit:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Benoit Benoit:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Benoit Benoit:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Both you guys (kenmore and benny) are missing the point. Although I'm arguing what is essentially a pro (pro/con debate term) position, the core issues are that the military doesn't like it and don't think of it as respect.


An army is not reducible to its past and present staffing. In fact, the idea of maintaining a permanent army is a democratic decision. Without a permanent army, Canada would be less prompt to be the yes-man of Americans.


without a standing army Canada would be less likely to be a yes-man of Aemerica?

Feel free to explain the logic behind that theory.


Re-staffing an army is not an over-night process. American bullies would have to be patient with us.


case in point. That means absolutely nothing because it follows no logic at all.


When you don't want to participate to the war initiated by your best ally, a dilatory tactic is quite rational.


A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Never eat anything bigger then your head.

Always wear clean underware.

point?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:16 pm
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
kenmore kenmore:
most of the big push on the flag issue came from families and widows of fallen men. how do we honour our fallen shouldiers.. there are flags at half mast all the time for police, correction workers..etc... if we support our troups ,we should respect them... I was proud as hell when they draped the flag over my dads coffin... they lowered it for my nephew last Oct.. the flag that day was about him and what he represented and what the flag meant to my sister ..
for some its all they have to cling to..


Yes, but the actual military says otherwise. That gets merit also.


PDT_Armataz_01_37


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:33 am
 


The motivations of the future staff of our army are linked to the discussions Canadians have around our flag.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:15 pm
 


kenmore kenmore:
the issue of lowering the flag for the fallen soldiers came about because of the numbers we have lost... its about respect... which the tory government has none of...


The parties that proposed the motion have no respect, none for soldiers, their families or veterans. They are doing their level best to curry the populace on the corpses of the dead soldiers that the so "respect". In fact the LPC pushed through the "NEW" Veterans charter faster than Bill Clintons fly coming down in the Oval Office as it is an affront to injured soldiers and likably Liberal cause it screws the injured. The "numbers" as stated, pale in comparison to conflicts past. A testament to the quality of our troops, as the "numbers" we have inflicted on the insurgents are geometrically higher and again is not the point. We lost more "numbers" in the first half hour of the Normandy landings.We continued to lose "numbers" all through the campaign in Europe spending all the volunteers and keeping the Zombie Brigades (conscripts) back in Canada, and the "numbers were appalling. "Numbers" is what the media focus on when they spoon feed the public agenda driven drivel in 20 second sound bites. 20 second sound bites are fine with most as long as it does not interfere with hockey scores, a bag of dope, box of beer or any number of all consuming consuming "me" things. There is no point "splaining" the realities as none cares...aparently. The point of the flag on the peace tower going to half mast on Rememberance Day is for all Canadians that served and to remember the fallen so that the sacrifices made will not be forgotten and not in vain. The quaint notion that there will be no more war or conflict are just that. For myself I pray for the day, but as a realist, we are still too tribal for that.

I'll say it again, if that flag goes down for my ass if I buy it over there, I will come and haunt you!

I'm a first generation Canadian, my mother has the scars of a german buzz bomb on her legs. My Grandmother raised three kids during the blitz. My paternal grandfather was killed, My nuturing Grandfather was shot twice, burned by phosphorous, had PTSD so bad he killed himself with drink. I won't even start on Afghanistan and friends etc....I could go on but won't as I suppose it's alittle maudlin for most of you but, when that flag comes down on November 11 people like me have alot to remember and be thankful for, Canada is a great place, but it came with a big bill to pay.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:23 pm
 


oh bullshit normalguy... its the fucking tories who dont give a shit about ordinary people....... hail king harper..


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:26 pm
 


Normalguy Normalguy:
The parties that proposed the motion have no respect, none for soldiers, their families or veterans. They are doing their level best to curry the populace on the corpses of the dead soldiers that the so "respect". In fact the LPC pushed through the "NEW" Veterans charter faster than Bill Clintons fly coming down in the Oval Office as it is an affront to injured soldiers and likably Liberal cause it screws the injured. The "numbers" as stated, pale in comparison to conflicts past. A testament to the quality of our troops, as the "numbers" we have inflicted on the insurgents are geometrically higher and again is not the point. We lost more "numbers" in the first half hour of the Normandy landings.We continued to lose "numbers" all through the campaign in Europe spending all the volunteers and keeping the Zombie Brigades (conscripts) back in Canada, and the "numbers were appalling. "Numbers" is what the media focus on when they spoon feed the public agenda driven drivel in 20 second sound bites. 20 second sound bites are fine with most as long as it does not interfere with hockey scores, a bag of dope, box of beer or any number of all consuming consuming "me" things. There is no point "splaining" the realities as none cares...aparently. The point of the flag on the peace tower going to half mast on Rememberance Day is for all Canadians that served and to remember the fallen so that the sacrifices made will not be forgotten and not in vain. The quaint notion that there will be no more war or conflict are just that. For myself I pray for the day, but as a realist, we are still too tribal for that.


There are a lot of things that you don’t understand:

- An army is no more than a subset of the populace.

- The idea of remembering the sacrifices of dead soldiers is only to motivate the youngest of this populace, and most importantly the children of the fallen soldiers, to care about their country (and by joining its army if necessary).

- The media are feeding on blood how little there is, not on numbers.

- A country and a flag are not about a certain number of people; they are about a collective identity.

- Lowering our flag is a diplomatic way to say to our American ally that next time, it must put its priority in order and go after a real threat.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:35 pm
 


Benoit Benoit:
Normalguy Normalguy:
The parties that proposed the motion have no respect, none for soldiers, their families or veterans. They are doing their level best to curry the populace on the corpses of the dead soldiers that the so "respect". In fact the LPC pushed through the "NEW" Veterans charter faster than Bill Clintons fly coming down in the Oval Office as it is an affront to injured soldiers and likably Liberal cause it screws the injured. The "numbers" as stated, pale in comparison to conflicts past. A testament to the quality of our troops, as the "numbers" we have inflicted on the insurgents are geometrically higher and again is not the point. We lost more "numbers" in the first half hour of the Normandy landings.We continued to lose "numbers" all through the campaign in Europe spending all the volunteers and keeping the Zombie Brigades (conscripts) back in Canada, and the "numbers were appalling. "Numbers" is what the media focus on when they spoon feed the public agenda driven drivel in 20 second sound bites. 20 second sound bites are fine with most as long as it does not interfere with hockey scores, a bag of dope, box of beer or any number of all consuming consuming "me" things. There is no point "splaining" the realities as none cares...aparently. The point of the flag on the peace tower going to half mast on Rememberance Day is for all Canadians that served and to remember the fallen so that the sacrifices made will not be forgotten and not in vain. The quaint notion that there will be no more war or conflict are just that. For myself I pray for the day, but as a realist, we are still too tribal for that.


There are a lot of things that you don’t understand:

- An army is no more than a subset of the populace.

- The idea of remembering the sacrifices of dead soldiers is only to motivate the youngest of this populace, and most importantly the children of the fallen soldiers, to care about their country (and by joining its army if necessary).

- The media are feeding on blood how little there is, not on numbers.

- A country and a flag are not about a certain number of people; they are about a collective identity.

- Lowering our flag is a diplomatic way to say to our American ally that next time, it must put its priority in order and go after a real threat.


WTF, move to France, crack is cheaper on there


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:37 pm
 


Normalguy Normalguy:
Benoit Benoit:
Normalguy Normalguy:
The parties that proposed the motion have no respect, none for soldiers, their families or veterans. They are doing their level best to curry the populace on the corpses of the dead soldiers that the so "respect". In fact the LPC pushed through the "NEW" Veterans charter faster than Bill Clintons fly coming down in the Oval Office as it is an affront to injured soldiers and likably Liberal cause it screws the injured. The "numbers" as stated, pale in comparison to conflicts past. A testament to the quality of our troops, as the "numbers" we have inflicted on the insurgents are geometrically higher and again is not the point. We lost more "numbers" in the first half hour of the Normandy landings.We continued to lose "numbers" all through the campaign in Europe spending all the volunteers and keeping the Zombie Brigades (conscripts) back in Canada, and the "numbers were appalling. "Numbers" is what the media focus on when they spoon feed the public agenda driven drivel in 20 second sound bites. 20 second sound bites are fine with most as long as it does not interfere with hockey scores, a bag of dope, box of beer or any number of all consuming consuming "me" things. There is no point "splaining" the realities as none cares...aparently. The point of the flag on the peace tower going to half mast on Rememberance Day is for all Canadians that served and to remember the fallen so that the sacrifices made will not be forgotten and not in vain. The quaint notion that there will be no more war or conflict are just that. For myself I pray for the day, but as a realist, we are still too tribal for that.


There are a lot of things that you don’t understand:

- An army is no more than a subset of the populace.

- The idea of remembering the sacrifices of dead soldiers is only to motivate the youngest of this populace, and most importantly the children of the fallen soldiers, to care about their country (and by joining its army if necessary).

- The media are feeding on blood how little there is, not on numbers.

- A country and a flag are not about a certain number of people; they are about a collective identity.

- Lowering our flag is a diplomatic way to say to our American ally that next time, it must put its priority in order and go after a real threat.


WTF, move to France, crack is cheaper on there


Answer!


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